Unusual issue popped up at work

[Josquius]

How would one "legally" change sex?

In Sweden it goes something like this.

1) Get a diagnosis from a psychiatrist.
2) Hormone treatment + surgery
3) Apply for change at the tax agency (IRS?) (They are responsible for keeping track of all citizens and legal residents)

When 3 occurs, you get a name-change (if you want) and a new social security number (in Sweden the social security number also identifies gender).

It does?
Which one of the last 4 is this? Odd for male, even for female (or vice-versa)?
(or is this something utterly different to a person number?)

[Martinus]

How would one "legally" change sex?

In Sweden it goes something like this.

1) Get a diagnosis from a psychiatrist.
2) Hormone treatment + surgery
3) Apply for change at the tax agency (IRS?) (They are responsible for keeping track of all citizens and legal residents)

When 3 occurs, you get a name-change (if you want) and a new social security number (in Sweden the social security number also identifies gender).

Just ignore grumbler. He is playing his usual semantics game of sex != gender. 

[Razgovory]

Just ignore grumbler. He is playing his usual semantics game of sex != gender. 

I will have to admit this is pretty petty even for Grumbler.

[grumbler]

In Sweden it goes something like this.

1) Get a diagnosis from a psychiatrist.
2) Hormone treatment + surgery
3) Apply for change at the tax agency (IRS?) (They are responsible for keeping track of all citizens and legal residents)

When 3 occurs, you get a name-change (if you want) and a new social security number (in Sweden the social security number also identifies gender).

Thanks.  Anyone have equivalent info for any other country?

[grumbler]

Just ignore grumbler. He is playing his usual semantics game of sex != gender. 

If you took your own advice, you'd sound silly less often.  As a lawyer would tell you, words used in law have meaning, and when a law refers to "sex" (like US Title IX) it is means the word is significant. 

Now, if you really want to argue that the English words "sex" and "gender" are synonymous, knock yourself right out.  You will have to refute every dictionary and medical journal, but I am sure that Martinus, Supergenius will find that no problem! 

Not that the difference between them matters to my point, which was "how does one legally change sex?" but that windmill might be a giant.

[grumbler]

Just ignore grumbler. He is playing his usual semantics game of sex != gender. 

I will have to admit this is pretty petty even for Grumbler.

Oh, Noes!  The Raz-Marty dogpile is activated! 

All we need is Syt or grallon to join in to make it a Trifecta of dogpilers.

[Bluebook]

It does?
Which one of the last 4 is this? Odd for male, even for female (or vice-versa)?
(or is this something utterly different to a person number?)

The third one of the last four. Odd for male, even for female.

Actually those last four are pretty interesting. They used to identify which hospital you were born at, but that was dropped for those born after 1980-something. 27 for example, was Småland/Växjö if I remember correctly.

The first two identified place of birth, the third one identified sex, and the last one was a control-figure that showed that all other figures in the social security number were correct. Via some mathematical formula involving all the other figures, the last control figure was determined.

[Syt]

All we need is Syt or grallon to join in to make it a Trifecta of dogpilers.

grallon has to take that one if he likes. On the whole I don't deem your posts worth commenting on or answering to. I have more meaningful ways to waste my time.

[grumbler]

All we need is Syt or grallon to join in to make it a Trifecta of dogpilers.

grallon has to take that one if he likes. On the whole I don't deem your posts worth commenting on or answering to. I have more meaningful ways to waste my time.

Ah, the old "I am pretending to ignore you but I am not" routine! 

An old Languish standard that hasn't worked for anyone yet, because everyone can see the responses that the poster pretends he isn't making.

If you really didn't think my posts worth responding to, you wouldn't have responded.

Now, the forum wonders:  can Syt resist responding to the post chiding him for responding when he says he doesn't?  Film at 11.

[Sheilbh]

Just ignore grumbler. He is playing his usual semantics game of sex != gender. 

Well, to be fair, sex isn't the same as gender.

[Martinus]

Just ignore grumbler. He is playing his usual semantics game of sex != gender. 

Well, to be fair, sex isn't the same as gender.

I know. But unless one is discussing gender theory etc. both are used pretty much interchangeably in day-to-day conversations.

[grumbler]

Just ignore grumbler. He is playing his usual semantics game of sex != gender. 

Well, to be fair, sex isn't the same as gender.

My question has to do with the law.  According to one lawyer (CC) they are legally the same.  Looking at actual laws in the US, though, the word "sex" seems to be the one used for the biological distinction.  "Gender" seems to crop up in the context of "crossgendered."  That still leaves the question of the "legal sex" of the crossgendered person, which is back to where I started.

[Martinus]

Besides, if one was to be petty and annoyingly nitpicky, then neither "changing your sex" nor "changing your gender" works in the legal context. What changes is the way the law recognizes your gender and/or sex, but neither your biological sex nor your gender identity is affected by this. You could say that the legal process is to align the official recognition with your gender rather than your sex.

[grumbler]

I know. But unless one is discussing gender theory etc. both are used pretty much interchangeably in day-to-day conversations.

Since my question has to do with the legal difference, I think we can throw out "day-to-day-conversation" conventions right away. 

[grumbler]

Besides, if one was to be petty and annoyingly nitpicky, then neither "changing your sex" nor "changing your gender" works in the legal context. What changes is the way the law recognizes your gender and/or sex, but neither your biological sex nor your gender identity is affected by this. You could say that the legal process is to align the official recognition with your gender rather than your sex.

Well, I will take your word, as that of an expert, on what it is to be petty and nitpicky, but since my question was about "legally changing one's gender" or sex, or whatever, I think I have your nitpicky distinction covered.  Garbo covered the non-legal angle many posts ago.