White House tells GM boss to step down

[Neil]

Tell me again why the union, who is in large part responsible for driving these companies into the ground, should get anything?

There is zero credible business reason to make these deals for the union. None. They ahve no leverage, no credibility, and they bring nothing to the table that a re-organized GM needs, and plenty that they do not.

This is nothing more than federal welfare for union employees.

Don't they bring to the table their labor and experience as the workforce of GM?

Given the depths to which they've brought the company, I would say that labour and experience are worthless.

[Berkut]

You guys are like an ER doctor with a patient dying of a giant fucking parasite attached to their brain sucking away their lifeblood trying to figure out how they can save the parasite once the patient dies.

I'd rather think that we're ER doctors who notice that the patient has an INOPERABLE brain tumour, and so we're trying to figure out what else we can do to save the patient.  Going on about how the patient would be better off without a brain tumour isn't helpful if we have no means to remove it.

Then it is hopeless, since it is the tumor killing the patient to begin with, and the doctors should spend their time and energy saving patients that can actually be saved, rather than trying to figure out how to keep the patient on life support because they love that tumor so much.

Which is my point - the actions of the Obama administration is making it clear they care a lot more about the UAW than they do about GM, and as far as I am concerned, this entire endeavor is nothing more than a way to shovel billions of dollars to the UAW.

[Caliga]

Do you guys seriously not get that, at least in the U.S., organized labor = organized crime? 

[alfred russel]

So you want the government, who basically is just now taking over the company, to have as its first major policy breaking one of the largest and most successful unions in the country?

Considering that "most successful" union is what is driving the company into bankruptcy and its existence is what makes it impossible for GM to succeed, yeah, I think that is a fine idea.

Although it would not be the Administration breaking the union, it would be the bankruptcy of GM that would do so - the Administrations roll is simply one where they do not elect to 'save" the union at the expense of the company, taxpayers, and consumers.

You realize that would involve massive protests, pickets, Jesse Jackson speeches, Congressional hearings, and probably another Michael Moore film?

Reagan is either a giant hero or villian (depending on your political persuasion) for breaking the air traffic controllers, who were on an illegal strike and arguably endangering the public. As controversial as that was (and is), there is no way any administration is ever going to force the UAW to leave GM.

[The Minsky Moment]

Tell me again why the union, who is in large part responsible for driving these companies into the ground, should get anything?

Because they are a massive creditor and provide a critical service to the debtor?

[Caliga]

Reagan is either a giant hero or villian (depending on your political persuasion) for breaking the air traffic controllers, who were on an illegal strike and arguably endangering the public. As controversial as that was (and is), there is no way any administration is ever going to force the UAW to leave GM.

No, you're right, of course.  The Democratic Party has been deep throating organized labor since the days of FDR.

[saskganesh]

except for the Reagan-era Hard Hat Republicans. they were national heroes, all of them.

[Berkut]

Tell me again why the union, who is in large part responsible for driving these companies into the ground, should get anything?

Because they are a massive creditor and provide a critical service to the debtor?

They provide no service to GM though. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zippo.

They are a parasite in fact. They harm GM. This is a classic case of them being the problem, not the solution.

If they are a creditor, then fine. Let them get in line with the other creditors, and they can get their pittance along with the other creditors, and GM can hire back  whatever employees they need when (and if) they come out of bankruptcy.

GM does not need the UAW, but the UAW must have GM, and the billions of dolalrs Obama is shoveling to them.

[Berkut]

Reagan is either a giant hero or villian (depending on your political persuasion) for breaking the air traffic controllers, who were on an illegal strike and arguably endangering the public. As controversial as that was (and is), there is no way any administration is ever going to force the UAW to leave GM.

No, you're right, of course.  The Democratic Party has been deep throating organized labor since the days of FDR.

And that is what this is all about. It is revolting. Nothing short of simple government theft from the taxpayers to their political masters. Bailing out the UAW helps nobody but the UAW. It doesn't help GM, it doesn't help Americans, it doesn't help the economy.

[alfred russel]

Reagan is either a giant hero or villian (depending on your political persuasion) for breaking the air traffic controllers, who were on an illegal strike and arguably endangering the public. As controversial as that was (and is), there is no way any administration is ever going to force the UAW to leave GM.

No, you're right, of course.  The Democratic Party has been deep throating organized labor since the days of FDR.

It isn't just a democratic thing: republicans may be less generous but a republican administration wouldn't try to break the UAW either.

[Berkut]

Reagan is either a giant hero or villian (depending on your political persuasion) for breaking the air traffic controllers, who were on an illegal strike and arguably endangering the public. As controversial as that was (and is), there is no way any administration is ever going to force the UAW to leave GM.

No, you're right, of course.  The Democratic Party has been deep throating organized labor since the days of FDR.

It isn't just a democratic thing: republicans may be less generous but a republican administration wouldn't try to break the UAW either.

Who is trying to break anyone?

[grumbler]

Then it is hopeless, since it is the tumor killing the patient to begin with, and the doctors should spend their time and energy saving patients that can actually be saved, rather than trying to figure out how to keep the patient on life support because they love that tumor so much.

Yes.  Your idea, though, which is to amputate the head to get rid of the tumor, is a non-starter.

Which is my point - the actions of the Obama administration is making it clear they care a lot more about the UAW than they do about GM, and as far as I am concerned, this entire endeavor is nothing more than a way to shovel billions of dollars to the UAW.

I am not quite so sure as you, but I think it is going to be moot anyway, as I don't think GM will survive bankruptcy anyway, and thus its contracts will be nullified.

[Ed Anger]

Libertarian Socialism would solve all these problems.

[Berkut]

Then it is hopeless, since it is the tumor killing the patient to begin with, and the doctors should spend their time and energy saving patients that can actually be saved, rather than trying to figure out how to keep the patient on life support because they love that tumor so much.

Yes.  Your idea, though, which is to amputate the head to get rid of the tumor, is a non-starter.

No, my idea is more like an intensive bit of chemo that will certainly kill the tumor, and might kill the patient. But then, the patients disease is fatal anyway, so no real loss.

This is preferable to simply sticking the patient on expensive life support indefinitely in an effort to keep the tumor happy as long as possible.

[The Minsky Moment]

They provide no service to GM though. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zippo.

This is just silly.

GM employs over 60,000 workers, even after taking into account the huge cuts scheduled for this year.  Many of those workers have specialized skills as electricians, millwrights, designers, technicians, machinists, etc.  Many have extensive plant-specific knowledge of the existing factory layouts and equipment.  There is no way that a workforce of that nature and size can be replaced by placing newspaper want-ads.  Nor is mass recruitment of the greater Detroit lumpenproletariat as a kind of latter day Leninist "industrial army" a serious proposal.

GM is going through a Chapter 11 reorg.  it is absolutely essential that the company continuing operating as best it can as a going concern during this process, and that it emerge as quickly as possible.  To break the union would take months and force a long shut-down of operations while the company, in the full throes of one of the most complex corporate reorganizations in history, attempts to reconstitute a massive 60K workforce from scratch (in the face of what would certainly be a very aggressive picket operation) It would be completely and utterly insane.  The reorganized company would die a dozen additional deaths before the union was broken.

I am no great fan of the UAW, but one must take reality as one finds it and make the best of it.