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White House tells GM boss to step down

Started by jimmy olsen, March 29, 2009, 05:08:50 PM

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Savonarola

#30
March 30, 2009, 10:57:11 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2009, 10:51:36 AM
That explains why things stay the way they do, but I still wonder why the model ever evolved that way in the first place.

I don't know for sure.  I would guess that it was a cheap way to build a national distribution network in the first decades of the 20th century when the automotive industry was started.  Prior to the 1930s there were a lot of automobile companies; and some of them were quite small.
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

Razgovory

#31
March 30, 2009, 11:02:10 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2009, 10:51:36 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 30, 2009, 10:49:01 AM
As I understand it, franchise laws and the political power of the dealers have prevented car makers from changing the existing model.  Auto manufacturers have wanted to do things like sell cars online, but the dealerships have blocked that so far.
That explains why things stay the way they do, but I still wonder why the model ever evolved that way in the first place.

In the 1920's they only had dial-up.  It was to slow to buy anything online.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Brain

#32
March 30, 2009, 11:40:18 AM
Obama should airlift in Maggie and break the unions.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

dps

#33
March 30, 2009, 11:47:18 AM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2009, 10:51:36 AM
That explains why things stay the way they do, but I still wonder why the model ever evolved that way in the first place.

It's not like people by most products direct from the manufacturer;  while that has changed a bit in some industries in recent years due to the internet, most people buy things from retail outlets of one type of another, and those outlets are only very rarely owned by the manufacturer.

The Brain

#34
March 30, 2009, 11:48:50 AM
If they can't even build cars why would they be able to sell cars?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

dps

#35
March 30, 2009, 11:51:38 AM
Quote from: The Brain on March 30, 2009, 11:48:50 AM
If they can't even build cars why would they be able to sell cars?

Oh, they build plenty of cars.  Selling them has been the problem. 

The Brain

#36
March 30, 2009, 11:54:07 AM
Quote from: dps on March 30, 2009, 11:51:38 AM
Quote from: The Brain on March 30, 2009, 11:48:50 AM
If they can't even build cars why would they be able to sell cars?

Oh, they build plenty of cars.  Selling them has been the problem.

:ike:
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Viking

#37
March 30, 2009, 11:55:09 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 29, 2009, 05:08:50 PM
:huh: I'm surprised. Didn't think they'd actually force out CEOs like that.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29946290/



I declare Obama a pussy. A real man would have said something like
Quote"Cornelius Gallus is no longer a friend of mine."
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

DGuller

#38
March 30, 2009, 12:05:07 PM
Quote from: dps on March 30, 2009, 11:47:18 AM
It's not like people by most products direct from the manufacturer;  while that has changed a bit in some industries in recent years due to the internet, most people buy things from retail outlets of one type of another, and those outlets are only very rarely owned by the manufacturer.
That's true, but when I go to Sears, I can look at and buy many brands there, which is the advantage of having stores.  Dealerships, on the other hand, mostly sell only one or two brands, so to me they seem like an extra middle man without value added.

Neil

#39
March 30, 2009, 12:18:56 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2009, 12:05:07 PM
Quote from: dps on March 30, 2009, 11:47:18 AM
It's not like people by most products direct from the manufacturer;  while that has changed a bit in some industries in recent years due to the internet, most people buy things from retail outlets of one type of another, and those outlets are only very rarely owned by the manufacturer.
That's true, but when I go to Sears, I can look at and buy many brands there, which is the advantage of having stores.  Dealerships, on the other hand, mostly sell only one or two brands, so to me they seem like an extra middle man without value added.
Dealerships allowed the distribution network to spread more quickly, and from the point of the manufacturers, much more cheaply.  And now they're juiced in.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Admiral Yi

#40
March 30, 2009, 12:53:46 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 30, 2009, 09:43:46 AM
No, not just you at all.  I do find it disgusting that industries that actually make something and require relatively small bailouts are drug through the mud, while those who laid waste to the economy while in no danger of creating any tangible wealth get hundreds of billions quietly.
Are you joking?  The auto companies have been dragged through the mud only to the extent that there was criticism of the CEOs taking private jets to Congressional hearings, and there has been nothing quiet about TARP.

Savonarola

#41
March 30, 2009, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 30, 2009, 12:53:46 PM
Are you joking?  The auto companies have been dragged through the mud only to the extent that there was criticism of the CEOs taking private jets to Congressional hearings, and there has been nothing quiet about TARP.

The automotive CEOs had a couple grueling hearings before congress; Chrysler and GMs requests for bailouts were met with 11th hour requests for concessions from bond holders and UAW members (and even after that they were rejected.)  The loans eventually came through TARP and the UAW members had to take a pay cut.  Now the auto industry has been given strict time lines to restructure.  The CEO of GM has been told to resign.

There may be very good reasons to treat the industries differently; but to me it seems that the automotive companies have had a much harder time securing much smaller loans than the financial institutions.

In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock

Berkut

#42
March 30, 2009, 01:19:23 PM
Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

They are not the same, the reasons for bailing them out are not the same, and there is no particular reason to think that they ought to be the same.

MMO companies are having an even harder time securing bailouts! ZOMG! It's so unfair!
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

Admiral Yi

#43
March 30, 2009, 01:24:10 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on March 30, 2009, 01:14:38 PM
The automotive CEOs had a couple grueling hearings before congress; Chrysler and GMs requests for bailouts were met with 11th hour requests for concessions from bond holders and UAW members (and even after that they were rejected.)  The loans eventually came through TARP and the UAW members had to take a pay cut.  Now the auto industry has been given strict time lines to restructure.  The CEO of GM has been told to resign.

There may be very good reasons to treat the industries differently; but to me it seems that the automotive companies have had a much harder time securing much smaller loans than the financial institutions.
I'm not sure Lehman, Bear Sterns, Washington Mutual, IndyMac and a couple hundred smaller banks would agree with that.

Savonarola

#44
March 30, 2009, 01:24:56 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 30, 2009, 01:19:23 PM
Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

They are not the same, the reasons for bailing them out are not the same, and there is no particular reason to think that they ought to be the same.

Nor did i say that there was; however I don't think Yi accurately characterized the difficulties Chrysler and GM had in getting their loans.
In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace—and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock
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