[Gay] Lesbians parents better at raising children

[Razgovory]

Can we all agree that

everybody> marti
when it comes to parenting

No. The woman with a 4 yo. in a freezer was worse.

Well she went 4 years before killing the child.  How long would you?

[Sheilbh]

I think sexuality comes, overwhelmingly from nature, and more or less is binary and not terribly fluid

[PDH]

No. The woman with a 4 yo. in a freezer was worse.

I dunno

[merithyn]

I think it is nature AND nurture. The problem with the nurture side of the equation, however, is that too many people equate it with more or less conscious, or at least visible and understandable aspects of upbringing, whereas I think it's more a whole range of environmental influences or "triggers" that are beyond our control.

I used to be a staunch believer in nurture over nature. I think in college I put it at something like 80% nurture/20% nature. Then I had kids; in particular, identical twins. Now I believe that it's much closer to 50/50, or even 60% nature/40% nurture.

We knew within a few months of life what the kids' personalities were going to be like, and I'll be damned but they proved us right. Now, how we handled them helped smooth out the rough areas and develop their strengths, but over all, I really think that they were born who they are today. 

This doesn't mean that pressure from outside couldn't or wouldn't change how they act, but I really don't think it would change who they are.

[merithyn]

I think sexuality comes, overwhelmingly from nature, and more or less is binary and not terribly fluid

I agree that sexuality comes overwhelmingly from nature, but I don't believe it's binary nor static for everyone. For some people, it's just not that cut and dried. I've known too many bisexuals who struggled with who they are and what they want to believe that. They just don't know, and not because of religious infringement or social stigmas, either. Like Buddha, they just never fit into that whole binary way of life, and because of that were fairly fluid in their preferences from one day, week, month, or year to the next.

[Berkut]

In my rather un-expert opinion, I think where people fall on the gay-bi-hetero scale is probably mostly nature.

I think their tolerance for their position on that scale is mostly cultural/nurture.

And I imagine most people are closer to the middle of that scale than they would like to admit. This seems pretty clear to me given the example of societies were bisexuality is tolerated or encouraged see a lot more bisexual activity.

[Sheilbh]

I agree that sexuality comes overwhelmingly from nature, but I don't believe it's binary nor static for everyone. For some people, it's just not that cut and dried. I've known too many bisexuals who struggled with who they are and what they want to believe that.

I've never known a bisexual who didn't end up just being gay.  I'm sure there are some bisexuals but my overwhelming experience of it is girls who'll kiss other girls but remain fundamentally straight, or guys who use an odd 'she's hot' comment as a fag leaf for their ever burgeoning homosexuality.

I think most of sexualities fluidity comes from struggling with what they want/are.  In my experience if a gay man ever tries to get a girlfriend it's not because he fancies women it's because he desperately wants to be normal.

[Malthus]

Well, we could start by locking you up in an all-male prision for a few years ... 

[On a serious note: "situational homosexuality"]

Having sex with men because there are no women available would not change my sexuality

Maybe not; but locking you up in prision and observing the results would certainly be an entertainment for the rest of us, in the best Languish tradition. 

[Malthus]

I agree that sexuality comes overwhelmingly from nature, but I don't believe it's binary nor static for everyone. For some people, it's just not that cut and dried. I've known too many bisexuals who struggled with who they are and what they want to believe that.

I've never known a bisexual who didn't end up just being gay.  I'm sure there are some bisexuals but my overwhelming experience of it is girls who'll kiss other girls but remain fundamentally straight, or guys who use an odd 'she's hot' comment as a fag leaf for their ever burgeoning homosexuality.

I think most of sexualities fluidity comes from struggling with what they want/are.  In my experience if a gay man ever tries to get a girlfriend it's not because he fancies women it's because he desperately wants to be normal.

"Fag leaf"  Is that an original turn of phrase? If so, it's a good one.

I think that one's basic orientation is set by nature, but that there is a lot of wiggle room for some, a lot of 'that depends on the situation and on society'.

The reason so many seek a "fag leaf" (heh) is that homosexuality, particularly male homosexuality, is so fraught with difficulty in our society (though increasingly less so). Different social pressures leads to a different outcome - it simply can't be the case that ancient Greeks were just "by nature" more prone to certain forms of homosexuality. 

[Valmy]

I've never known a bisexual who didn't end up just being gay.  I'm sure there are some bisexuals but my overwhelming experience of it is girls who'll kiss other girls but remain fundamentally straight, or guys who use an odd 'she's hot' comment as a fag leaf for their ever burgeoning homosexuality.

I think most of sexualities fluidity comes from struggling with what they want/are.  In my experience if a gay man ever tries to get a girlfriend it's not because he fancies women it's because he desperately wants to be normal.

Once again Shielbh and I are of one mind.

[Valmy]

Maybe not; but locking you up in prision and observing the results would certainly be an entertainment for the rest of us, in the best Languish tradition. 

Languish is slowly taking my sanity but it can never take my freedom!

[Berkut]

I agree that sexuality comes overwhelmingly from nature, but I don't believe it's binary nor static for everyone. For some people, it's just not that cut and dried. I've known too many bisexuals who struggled with who they are and what they want to believe that.

I've never known a bisexual who didn't end up just being gay. 

Really?

That is surprising. I would guess that you would know a lot more non-straight people than I do, yet I know at least a couple bisexual people who never ended up jut being gay.

My best friends sister went from being in monogamous relationships with a woman, to a guy who she was engaged with, to another woman she almost married, then finally married a guy and now has a child. I guess at some point she could go back to "just" being gay, and you would be right, but it seems rather unlikely - she isn't really the type to do much of anything other than what she wants. She certainly is not going back and forth because she is conflicted about her sexuality, but simply (according to her) because she likes both men and women.

[DontSayBanana]

I think a lot of the problem with gays and straights recognizing bis is that since we're attracted to their turnoffs as well as their turnons, we'll just get viewed as filthy hedonists.

[Eddie Teach]

What's wrong with hedonism? 

[Martinus]

Maybe not; but locking you up in prision and observing the results would certainly be an entertainment for the rest of us, in the best Languish tradition. 

Languish is slowly taking my sanity but it can never take my freedom!

How can you be sure you are not already locked in the virtual reality world, with all your thoughts and sensations being fed to you neurally by the yi-hive-mind.