Afghanistan News: Obama says NO to everything!

[Sheilbh]

I haven't heard or read anything about a revamped strategy.  I thought the issue on the table was McChrystal's request for more troops.  And there are plenty of political reasons to hold off on that question.

I'm very annoyed at the media coverage because they keep on saying about the need for a new strategy or a change in strategy.  MacChrystal's report was barely about the need for more troops, that was about 5 pages, it was precisely about a change in strategy.  If they just wanted more troops I'd be very suspicious, but they want both troops and a new strategy which could work.

Having said that I think you've got far more chance of getting more NATO troops than getting many NATO nations to sign up to the new strategy MacChrystal's suggested.  And I think that everyone needs to decide what they're going to do about Karzai before re-committing to Afghanistan.

[garbon]

That's not a description of the NHS though

That's exactly what happens though, unless the individuals were lying or their specialists lied to them.

[Sheilbh]

That's not a description of the NHS though

That's exactly what happens though, unless the individuals were lying or their specialists lied to them.

What's this story based on?  So far as I know there's no waiting lists, whatsoever, for drugs.  Once you get prescribed the only wait is as long as it takes for your pharmacist to order the drugs (assuming it's not common).  There's a waiting time for treatment and this varies across the country. 

The longest period is 18 weeks which is a long time, but the average from GP referral, through preliminary tests to treatment goes from around 4.5 weeks for outpatients and 8.5 weeks for inpatients - if there's an emergency or it's at a developed stage it obviously moves quicker

Also it's not because there's a quota of treatments it's that there's a limited number of specialists able to see people, or hospital beds to treat them, or operating times available.  There's not some centrally decided number of cancer patients who are allowed treatment at any time and you have to wait for someone to die or go into remission.

Anyway I don't think anyone, anywhere has ever suggested that the NHS would be a good model for the US to adopt and though British people are very fond of it and loyal to it I think most people would agree that it could do with fundamental reform.  The problem's a reverse of the US one really.  In the US most people's experience of part or full government funded healthcare is probably the NHS or the Canadian system (which I believe has some similarities) so they don't get that there's a whole range of options including a number of social insurance models.  Similarly for British people the foreign healthservice we know best is the American one so if you suggest a social insurance based model then they go mental because they don't want anything like the American system which is what they immediately associate with 'insurance' and healthcare.

[garbon]

What's this story based on?  So far as I know there's no waiting lists, whatsoever, for drugs.

We heard it from almost every Rheumatoid Arthritis patient we interviewed. Our moderator even told us at one point that there were so little spots for the newer drugs that people were protesting in London...although I didn't look that up to confirm.

[Sheilbh]

What's this story based on?  So far as I know there's no waiting lists, whatsoever, for drugs.

We heard it from almost every Rheumatoid Arthritis patient we interviewed. Our moderator even told us at one point that there were so little spots for the newer drugs that people were protesting in London...although I didn't look that up to confirm.

I've looked up the Rheumatoid Arthritis thing. 

So far as I can tell the drug was launched in the UK on the 8th of October but it's still being appraised by the body in charge of such things so there's no national policy on it.  There are trials nationwide being run right now and aside from that it's at the discretion of the primary trust (the geographical sections the NHS is cut into).

It doesn't look, though, like it'll get nationwide approval because it's not considered cost-effective.  But the full findings haven't finished and that'll probably be appealed, if that's what they finally decide.

[Barrister]

Anyway I don't think anyone, anywhere has ever suggested that the NHS would be a good model for the US to adopt and though British people are very fond of it and loyal to it I think most people would agree that it could do with fundamental reform.  The problem's a reverse of the US one really.  In the US most people's experience of part or full government funded healthcare is probably the NHS or the Canadian system (which I believe has some similarities) so they don't get that there's a whole range of options including a number of social insurance models.  Similarly for British people the foreign healthservice we know best is the American one so if you suggest a social insurance based model then they go mental because they don't want anything like the American system which is what they immediately associate with 'insurance' and healthcare.

I think Canadian attitudes are very much as you describe.  The only two systems that they know are the American system, and the Canadian system, so any attempt to change or reform medicare is immediately labelled as being in favour of "American-style health care".

[Berkut]

It is rather funny, really.

Everyone hates their own system, but is convinced that the only thing worse is the "other" system.

[Sheilbh]

It is rather funny, really.

Everyone hates their own system, but is convinced that the only thing worse is the "other" system.

  I know.  We need to find the country that's happy with their system and then we can all copy it.

[garbon]

I've looked up the Rheumatoid Arthritis thing. 

So far as I can tell the drug was launched in the UK on the 8th of October but it's still being appraised by the body in charge of such things so there's no national policy on it.  There are trials nationwide being run right now and aside from that it's at the discretion of the primary trust (the geographical sections the NHS is cut into).

It doesn't look, though, like it'll get nationwide approval because it's not considered cost-effective.  But the full findings haven't finished and that'll probably be appealed, if that's what they finally decide.

The drug? There are many drugs available in the UK. Recently one drug might have gotten approved and I know that one drug now has a new formulation.

[garbon]

It is rather funny, really.

Everyone hates their own system, but is convinced that the only thing worse is the "other" system.

I don't hate the American system although I do think it is broken.

[Sheilbh]

The drug? There are many drugs available in the UK. Recently one drug might have gotten approved and I know that one drug now has a new formulation.

There's a drug that's had a good response for people for whom existing treatments don't work.  That's the only one arthritis charities are worrying about.

[garbon]

There's a drug that's had a good response for people for whom existing treatments don't work.  That's the only one arthritis charities are worrying about.

Well I can tell you that there are several treatments that require refrigeration that are often seen as the standard of care after trying out less effective medicines. (I believe the NICE guidelines are that you have to have failed on two of the less effective meds first). Patients reported being denied access because there were too many other people on it.  So like I said before, if what you say is true, either they lied to us or their specialists lied to them.

[The Brain]

Or you're lying to us.

[Sheilbh]

Well I can tell you that there are several treatments that require refrigeration that are often seen as the standard of care after trying out less effective medicines. (I believe the NICE guidelines are that you have to have failed on two of the less effective meds first). Patients reported being denied access because there were too many other people on it.  So like I said before, if what you say is true, either they lied to us or their specialists lied to them.

Okay.  You know more about this, but it's not something I've heard of before.

[Martinus]

It is rather funny, really.

Everyone hates their own system, but is convinced that the only thing worse is the "other" system.

Doesn't this pretty much describe our approach to everything, not just health service?