Is Israel Too Strong for America?

[Admiral Yi]

I fail to see how these two are mutually exclusive, though I think the outcome of the eventual Israeli pull out of the West Bank will, ultimately, be positive.  Gaza was a freak case, and I think allowing a vote in Palestine was stupid anyway.

Was Oslo a freak case too? 

I thought of another one Squeelus.  How much did Camp David improve ME public opinion towards the US?

[Neil]

Continued terror bombing until they all just give up? Firstly, I don't think it has ever really happened, as both Shanghai and Warsaw ended up being a pain after their respective terror bombings.  Secondly, it just kills people, and most of the people in Palestine are kids.  I don't know why anyone would ever want to bomb thousands/millions of kids to death.

The British firebombed the shit out of Germany, and even the American daylight 'precision' raids weren't so precise.

Why would you want to kill kids?  To deny them to the enemy.  The kids of Palestine are a resource, and it is important to deny them to the Palestinian terror movements, until such time as the Palestinians accept peace on Israeli terms.

[Hansmeister]

I fail to see how these two are mutually exclusive, though I think the outcome of the eventual Israeli pull out of the West Bank will, ultimately, be positive.  Gaza was a freak case, and I think allowing a vote in Palestine was stupid anyway.

Was Oslo a freak case too? 

I thought of another one Squeelus.  How much did Camp David improve ME public opinion towards the US?

We just need a second Camp David accord.  That'll do the trick and cause the nuts in the ME to love us. 

The hate towards the US and Israel are entirely internally created ME phenomena.  Queequeg's delusion seems to think that the islamoturds are actually sincere in their complaints.  Arabs don't really give a fuck about the palestinians and use them only as an excuse to project the responsibility for their collective failures outward.  Only an idiot would believe that any concession that we or Israel give would result in the arabs taking responsibility for their own fucked up mess.

If the jews didn't exist the arabs would have to invent them.

[Eddie Teach]

Fuck the nazi death cult palestinians.  If there is any group of people less deserving of a state i can't think of it.

Confedertards.

That is a single possibly fictitious person until I see concrete proof otherwise. 

[Warspite]

Arabs don't really give a fuck about the palestinians and use them only as an excuse to project the responsibility for their collective failures outward.

Say Hans, have you ever talked to a real Arab, or just the caricatures in your own imagination?

[Valmy]

The Israeli extremists are clearly of the opinion that a comprehensive peace with the Arabs is not possible at this time, if at all - that lack of concessions they will take as "provocation" and presense of concessions they will take as "weakness". So they intend it would seem to simply grab the real estate they want and built a wall around it.

The problem for the rest of us is to find something that will disabuse them of this notion. The events in Gaza were particularly unfortunate in that respect - the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza isn't a good precident for further Israeli withdrawals, or the notion that Israeli concessions are a good starting-point for peace in the region.

This is precisely my own opinion.  Those wanting Israel to give concessions must either:

1. Be ignorant idiots

2. Think the Israelis are ignorant idiots

3. Are anti-Israel and want it to be destroyed

Until Gaza resolves into something peaceful and stable there can be no question of Palestinian advancement...anybody who wants the situation to resolve itself peacefully must direct all their efforts to that end.

So far nobody gives a rats ass about Gaza and never have ever since 2005 which leads me to believe the international community doesn't care about the Palestinians.  Their actions speak louder than their idiotic rhetoric.

[Queequeg]

Actually I agree with Hansmeister on quite a bit.  Israel is used in the Mid-East like Goldstein in 1984; an object of hate used by the state as a vent for everyone's despair and hatred of their regime or their situation.  Roads are shitty?  OH SHIT PALESTINE!  Not becoming literate?  OH SHIT PALESTINE!

And frankly, fuck anyone who accuses me of being an anti-Semite.  I was as staunch a supporter of Isreal as anyone until the Gaza campaign and the attack on Tony Judt. 

With that said, I don't think it is an excuse to attack civilian areas, or to colonize nations.  It is wrong in Cyprus, and it is wrong in the  non-ethnically Armenian areas of Nagorno-Kharabakh, and it is wrong in the West Bank, particularly as Mahmoud Abbas isn't a bad sort. 

[Valmy]

By the way I think it is absurd to the point of comedy that pressure is put on the Israelis to help out the Palestinians.  Why should they do that?

The pressure should be on the Palestinians Arab "brothers" whose policies are so incredibly anti-Palestinian and discriminatory it makes the Israelis look benevolent by comparison.  If the other Arab nations are not willing to do anything for them...why the fuck would the Israelis?

[Valmy]

With that said, I don't think it is an excuse to attack civilian areas, or to colonize nations.  It is wrong in Cyprus, and it is wrong in the  non-ethnically Armenian areas of Nagorno-Kharabakh, and it is wrong in the West Bank, particularly as Mahmoud Abbas isn't a bad sort. 

I totally agree and I wish somebody was interested in doing something to stop it.  It all boils down to making it work in Gaza.  If Gaza can work it leaves the nutty right wing Israelis without a leg to stand on, with Hamas in charge you can count on the colonization and attacks to continue.  Hamas is the ultimate force destroying Palestine by giving the right wing nutters in Israel all they need.

[Valmy]

Arabs don't really give a fuck about the palestinians and use them only as an excuse to project the responsibility for their collective failures outward.

Say Hans, have you ever talked to a real Arab, or just the caricatures in your own imagination?

Well you have to admit the policies of the Arab nations towards the Palestinians are outrageous and it makes them look rather bad...

[Neil]

Anyone who opposes colonization is inherently immoral.

[Queequeg]

Anyone who opposes colonization is inherently immoral.

This isn't even really colonization.  The Gauls got Wine from the Romans.  We gave the Native Americans liquor and guns.  Israel gives the Palestinians...what?

[sbr]

Anyone who opposes colonization is inherently immoral.

This isn't even really colonization.  The Gauls got Wine from the Romans.  We gave the Native Americans liquor and guns.  Israel gives the Palestinians...what?

Bombs and bullets?

[Neil]

Anyone who opposes colonization is inherently immoral.

This isn't even really colonization.  The Gauls got Wine from the Romans.  We gave the Native Americans liquor and guns.  Israel gives the Palestinians...what?

Public order.  The advantages of citizenship in the first world.

[Queequeg]

That's certainly the situation for Israeli Arabs, not for Palestinians in Palestine.