Anti-h1n1 vaccine fear-mongering runs amok in Canada

[Ed Anger]

Is it me or is Drakken awful defensive about this wondrous vaccine?

The seduction community demands it.

[Lucidor]

Paranoid people have such wonderful grasp of the language. Does the craziness come through to you as well, Drakken?

[Drakken]

Paranoid people have such wonderful grasp of the language. Does the craziness come through to you as well, Drakken?

You mean in the text you have sent me?

I must admit I can picture the guy, alone in his room, scribbling on his computer like a raving maniac about the "truthiness" he has discovered, hoping to save Sweden from the poison the nanny State will force onto millions of innocents, before it is "too late"(tm), while ignoring his family or his needful wife (if he is married, he could also be a total schizo and über-nerd living in his mother's basement).

It is self-evident he has taken lots and lots of time and pain to put as much details, factoids, and data as possible to "demontrate" his point, even if his premise is ludicrous from the start. And I am certain that, in his mind, he thinks it all makes sense. Ah, the beautiful language and structure of the paranoid, fluid like drops of pus.

Because, really, if someone argues that the swine flu and the vaccine are weapons of mass destruction engineered in laboratories by the OMS and big pharma, all the while keeping a serious, blank face, either he is the greatest deadpan comedian of the planet or he is a delusional psycho to be institutionalized for various anti-mental illness treatment.

Oddly, I really want this suit to go to the tribunal, so he can ridicule himself (and his cause) in front of judges,society and the whole world before losing all credibility, being branded a vexatious litigant, and denied any further attention from the judicial system.

He declares himself a "freelance writer", for what publications has he published? Expressen?

[saskganesh]

like every year, I'm not getting the vaccine. Swine flu is not really more dangerous than other flus, unless you are in a high risk group.

[Josephus]

like every year, I'm not getting the vaccine. Swine flu is not really more dangerous than other flus, unless you are in a high risk group.

and the high-risk group, ironically, includes people who got the flu shot last year. For this reason  I too decline.

Besides we all know that in addition to the vaccine, the government includes a tracking device that can monitor your everyday movements and hear your thoughts.

[citizen k]

First I've heard of it.

Anti-vaccine hysteria in CAnada is everywhere:

September 29, 2009

Canadian provincial authorities are rethinking flu shots because of data that link getting a seasonal flu shot to an increased risk of contracting a mild case of swine flu. Helen Branswell, medical reporter for the Canadian Press, says though not many people have seen the data, the numbers have become a part of the discussion in the public health community.

ROBERT SIEGEL, host:
As public health departments in this country and many other countries prepare for the flu season, they must now cope with what's being called the Canadian problem. There's evidently a study somewhere in Canada that links getting a seasonal flu shot to an increased risk of contracting swine flu, albeit a mild case. Very few people have actually seen the data, but various Canadian provincial authorities are rethinking flu shots because of it and some have actually gone beyond rethinking.

Helen Branswell, who was medical reporter for The Canadian Press, the wire service, has written about this and she joins us now from Toronto. First, Helen Branswell, what is this study that we're talking about?

Ms. HELEN BRANSWELL (Medical Reporter, Canadian Press): Well, it's almost a phantom. It's hanging out there, but as you mentioned, no one's seen it. A group from British Columbia, the British Columbia Centers for Disease Control looked at some vaccine efficacy databases that they had earlier in the year. And seemed to see - there was a higher rate of swine flu cases in people who had had a seasonal flu shot last fall than there were in people who hadn't had a seasonal flu shot last fall. So that started an investigation.

They looked at, I believe, another database. And when they continued to see this association, they asked partners in Quebec and then later Ontario to search their databases to see if this was also showing up elsewhere. And the report is that this association, which no one can really explain, is seen in the databases from British Columbia, Quebec and Ontario.

SIEGEL: But it's not as though someone has now gone and published this and said, here's our finding.

Ms. BRANSWELL: Whether it's going to get published or not isn't clear until a journal decides to take it. But it has been submitted as far as I know. Yes.

SIEGEL: And whatever its position in the publication pipeline, decisions have been made on the basis of this report in Canada.

Mr. BRANSWELL: Yeah. Not very many people have seen it, but a lot of people in public health know about it and it became part of the discussion as the provinces and territorial governments in Canada were trying to figure out what to do with seasonal flu vaccine and pandemic flu vaccine delivery programs for this fall.

SIEGEL: So, what is the status right now of flu shots across Canada?

Mr. BRANSWELL: Well, we have 10 provinces and three territories and most of them have announced that they're going to be giving seasonal flu vaccine in October to people 65 and older and residents of long term care facilities. These are people who aren't at high risk of contracting H1N1, but are at high risk of seasonal flu, a bad sickness if they get seasonal flu. So they're going to give them the seasonal flu shots. But the rest of the population is being told they can't get a seasonal flu shot in the fall.

Then, in November, when our pandemic vaccine is available, they're going to vaccinate anyone who wants the pandemic vaccine then. And in January or early next year, if the studies are disproven or if it seems safe at that point to give the seasonal shots, they'll resume offering them to other people.

SIEGEL: Is it a fair criticism here to say that whatever the actual content of this British-Colombian study, word of it seems to have spread with all the scrutiny and peer review of a game of telephone?

(Soundbite of laughter)

Ms. BRANSWELL: It's a very unusual situation for an unpublished study to be influencing public policy in this way, especially as many other people who are making the decisions may not have actually seen the data.

SIEGEL: Have you heard anyone offer an immunological argument as to why getting a seasonal flu shot might in any way enhance anyone's risk of contracting swine flu?

Ms. BRANSWELL: No, no. People can't seem to come up with a reason why this would make sense. That's part of the reason I think that these results are not affecting policy at this point outside of Canada. I think people don't - can't figure out why it would be true. So, in the absence of a good biological explanation and in the absence of seeing the same effect in other data sets elsewhere, I think there's a reluctance to buy into this.

SIEGEL: Well, Helen Branswell, thank you very much for talking with us about it.

Ms. BRANSWELL: Thank you.

SIEGEL: Helen Branswell is medical reporter for the Canadian Press and she spoke to us from Toronto.

[garbon]

Pfft, it's no AIDS.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

like every year, I'm not getting the vaccine. Swine flu is not really more dangerous than other flus, unless you are in a high risk group.

and the high-risk group, ironically, includes people who got the flu shot last year.

really? Well I'm avoiding it if true then.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

Pfft, it's no AIDS.

Not even remotely.

[Gbeagle]

That's not true at all - you can get the flu year after year, because it isn't the same flu. What use is it to be "forever" immune to a single seasonal strain, if there is a new one every year? 

It is true than not getting diseases diminishes the population's overall immunity, but that is rather a poor reason for willingly getting diseases.

Well, also most vaccines even for diseases that don't mutate significantly wear off to some degree in around say 10 years or so. Though with the flu to be honest, as Malthus says, its more that the virus changes so rapidly. At least this year they know one of the strains to target. That will help a ton with effectiveness. Not knowing what strains is what makes the flu vaccines sort of crap some years. 

[Zoupa]

I'm a pharmacist and I'm not getting the shot.

This vaccine has not been properly tested, and that's a fact.

[Threviel]

I'm a pharmacist and I'm not getting the shot.

This vaccine has not been properly tested, and that's a fact.

What are the risks?

[Agelastus]

like every year, I'm not getting the vaccine. Swine flu is not really more dangerous than other flus, unless you are in a high risk group.

Likewise. I am still many years from being in a high risk group. Let people who really need it have it.

[Malthus]

I'm a pharmacist and I'm not getting the shot.

This vaccine has not been properly tested, and that's a fact.

Isn't it the same as any other flu shot, just for a particular strain?

In that case, the risk would be mostly that it wasn't effective, right? The adverse events would be the same as other flu shots - i.e., not a high percentage chance.

That being the case, I'm not sure what the downside is - a (very small) chance of adverse reactions seems a small price to pay, when there is a (reasonable) chance the stuff works. The "risk" is mostly that it won't work and so you will be risking the adverse reactions for nothing.

[Razgovory]

I don't go outside much so I'm not going to infect anyone.