Anti-h1n1 vaccine fear-mongering runs amok in Canada

[Viking]

The way the vaccine was created is shady at best. Barely has been tested & the company making it as requested immunity (no idea if they got it tho). I don't mind getting vaccinated but they need to test the damn thing, first.

The thing about flu vaccines is that the epedemic is over by the time the vaccine is fully tested. As Drakken said, the vaccine is basically identical to previous vaccines but being subtly different from the previous ones making it suitable for the present vaccine.

[Drakken]

I'm not going to get the regular flu vaccine. I'm not 80.

So-called "herd immunity".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Dunno what the math is like for flu vaccine on this.

Given that this strain is completely new, the only way to get immunity is either vaccination or get the flu. Don't know why, I prefer the former.

[Drakken]

I'll have to go to TAM once in my life, especially since it is in Las Vegas.

They have TAM london as well. Though, this year it sold out almost immediately.

I just love Steven Novella's interventions. The Skeptics Guide to the Universe plain rocks! 

[Malthus]

Given that this strain is completely new, the only way to get immunity is either vaccination or get the flu. Don't know why, I prefer the former.

My point is that, by getting vaccinated even if you personally do not fear the disease, you are helping others who have reason to fear the disease by providing 'herd immunity" - i.e., you can no longer act as a vector.

This is one reason why anti-vaccination types are asses.

[Drakken]

Given that this strain is completely new, the only way to get immunity is either vaccination or get the flu. Don't know why, I prefer the former.

My point is that, by getting vaccinated even if you personally do not fear the disease, you are helping others who have reason to fear the disease by providing 'herd immunity" - i.e., you can no longer act as a vector.

This is one reason why anti-vaccination types are asses.

I agree.

My point is that for the h1n1 flu strain, herd immunity will come only post facto, after a significant amount of people get vaccinated or get sick, because this strain of h1n1 is an unknown one to our immune system.

Right now, the population, especially those aged 0 to 64, have no herd immunity at all against this strain. People aged 65 and older seem to have some form of immunity that makes them less likely to catch it, but the higher proportion of respiratory disease or other infection makes them more likely to be hospitalized.

And what is scary about the current h1n1 flu is that it while it is very mild in most cases, it's either that or very severe, with no middle ground. If you get to the hospital, it is usually in ICU. And in severe cases, it literally attacks the alveols in the lungs.

[KRonn]

I'm a little worried about getting the H1N1 shot, but I do want it. I work for a hospital and while not in direct contact with patients, the hospital is encouraging all of us who work here to get the shot. I already got this year's regular flu shot at the hospital, and have been getting that yearly since I've worked here.

[Drakken]

I'm a little worried about getting the H1N1 shot, but I do want it. I work for a hospital and while not in direct contact with patients, the hospital is encouraging all of us who work here to get the shot. I already got this year's regular flu shot at the hospital, and have been getting that yearly since I've worked here.

I've been vaccinated against the flu for the last two years, since it is supplied by my company for free. I had a runny nose and small headache the first time, and itching in my arm the second time. All these are lightweight compared to regular flu symptoms.

If you have been vaccinated with the regular flu vaccine already, why are you worried? It is the same vaccine, but with a different strain. And this time, since we know which strain, immunization is almost guaranteed. When the strain in the vaccine matches the flu strain in circulation, flu vaccines are very efficient.

I'm more worried about the h1n1 spreading in the population before enough vaccine doses are ready.

[KRonn]

I'm a little worried about getting the H1N1 shot, but I do want it. I work for a hospital and while not in direct contact with patients, the hospital is encouraging all of us who work here to get the shot. I already got this year's regular flu shot at the hospital, and have been getting that yearly since I've worked here.

I've been vaccinated against the flu for the last two years, since it is supplied by my company for free. I had a runny nose and small headache the first time, and itching in my arm the second time. All these are lightweight compared to regular flu symptoms.

If you have been vaccinated with the regular flu vaccine already, why are you worried? It is the same vaccine, but with a different strain. And this time, since we know which strain, immunization is almost guaranteed. When the strain in the vaccine matches the flu strain in circulation, flu vaccines are very efficient.

I'm more worried about the h1n1 spreading in the population before enough vaccine doses are ready.

I'm not that worried, since the H1N1 vaccine isn't too different from other flu vaccines. I'm more worried about H1N1 effects and getting the vaccination in time, since young and healthy people are dying from it, though that's rare.  I heard on the news that Boston area hospitals and health care facilities have started receiving the vaccine. So far it's the nasal spray that uses a live virus. The shot uses a dead virus and that's coming a bit later.

[HVC]

I'm gettignt eh shot becasue it's being provided by my work. if i had to go out of my way i wouldn't get it. I still think the swine flu crap is being over blown.

[crazy canuck]

I'm more worried about the h1n1 spreading in the population before enough vaccine doses are ready.

Another thing I am worried about is that the regular schedule of vaccination was delayed because of H1N1.  For example our office employees should have recieved their shots this week, as we do every year.  But that has been put on hold indefinitely.

If this is widespread then more people will become sick due to normal flu then perhaps will become infected with H1N1

[Drakken]

I'm gettignt eh shot becasue it's being provided by my work. if i had to go out of my way i wouldn't get it. I still think the swine flu crap is being over blown.

It is not because it is mostly benign that it is overblown, it is still a pandemic. But of course, it isn't the new Spanish Flu pandemic everyone feared, but it remains dangerous.

If you get a severe case and survive, it can scrap your lungs for good nonetheless. That, plus the fact that you could be a vector for infection, are all good reasons to get vaccinated.

Get vaccinated, and you don't have to worry about this strain anymore - ever.

[Drakken]

I'm more worried about the h1n1 spreading in the population before enough vaccine doses are ready.

Another thing I am worried about is that the regular schedule of vaccination was delayed because of H1N1.  For example our office employees should have recieved their shots this week, as we do every year.  But that has been put on hold indefinitely.

If this is widespread then more people will become sick due to normal flu then perhaps will become infected with H1N1

Well, given that the h1n1 is now the dominant flu strain worldwide it makes sense to put all production resources for this strain in priority.

Mine for season flu was reported to next January.

[viper37]

Good for you if have been spared. But in Quebec, it has literally exploded.

same in th US as I've heard.

[The Brain]

Is it me or is Drakken awful defensive about this wondrous vaccine?

[Bluebook]

From an individual perspective it makes much more sense not to get the vaccine. If you take the shot, you are 70-90% protected/immune for 2-5 years. If you actually get the flu and survive (which is something like 99,995% probable) you are 100% immune for the rest of your life. Same goes for getting a shot against the "normal" flu. It is much better to actually get the flu and recover than to get the vaccination against it. On a population level, the same applies, the mass vaccinations actually diminishes the populations immune system defence. 

As for the "you should get the shot to avoid infecting others"-argument, that is just crap. You can carry the virus without having symptoms, and you can transfer the virus despite being vaccined against it.

What remains is the national-economic perspective. The only one with real merit. Simply put, the economy is hurt bad if 10-20-40% of the workforce is in bed for a week with the flu. But its not really a super-compelling argument to take a vaccine that has been rushed through testing. In Sweden, we get the added benefit of some mecury injected together with the vaccine. (This due to packing. The vaccine is delivered in several-dose-bottles instead of in one-dose-packs. This means some form of protection for the vaccine is required (because of the opened bottle being non-sterile) and for some reason, mercury is chosen for this. 

Something stinks in this mess. I know for a fact that Swedens deal with Glaxo-Klein-Smith requires Sweden to buy 18 million doses if and when the WHO has classed an influenza as a pandemic. I suspect other nations have similar provisions in their deals with the vaccine manufacturers. It is one of the prerequisites for being a priority country when it comes to sorting out who gets the first deliveries.

Anyway, that means that the desicion from the WHO to declare this one a pandemic meant a very very large profit for the medical companies manufacturing the vaccine.

Now...does anyone really think this AH1N1 fits the common understanding of the word "pandemic"?