Dystopian Motif in British Cinema/Art

[Queequeg]

"Brasil", Loncraine's "Richard III", "V for Vendetta", Jarman's "Edward II" (but also "1984") - there is a very distinct "line" of movies and books in British culture that features this bleak, dystopian police state as the chief enemy - something that is, for example, much less common in the American cinema (one movie I can think of is "12 Monkeys" - but again you could say this is a British movie despite having American actors).

You left out what I would call the most obvious after 1984, A Clockwork Orange.

I think the key is that Britain never experienced Totalitarianism but was far more exposed to it than we were.  Most of the above are generally along the lines of It Happened Here (which you also forgot), which is the most obvious case of British distopianism simply transporting the Continent's totalitarianism on to England.

American Totalitarianism is often somewhat different. I think Brave New World, though Huxley was British, is far more American. 

[Martinus]

The movie? Perhaps (although I didn't take it that way). The comic book on which it was based, however, was clearly anti-thacherite, though.

A right wing government that comes to power on a faked terrorist attack and is dominated by a televangelist?  What does that have to do with Thatcher?

You realise that the film is based on a comic book written in the 1980s/early 1990s, right? In fact, if you find some interviews with the author he says it was his response to the oppressive atmosphere of the Thatcher's era.

[Queequeg]

Because he is fat.

You never see his face.  Body double. 

[Admiral Yi]

You realise that the film is based on a comic book written in the 1980s/early 1990s, right?

I do now.

[Martinus]

"Brasil", Loncraine's "Richard III", "V for Vendetta", Jarman's "Edward II" (but also "1984") - there is a very distinct "line" of movies and books in British culture that features this bleak, dystopian police state as the chief enemy - something that is, for example, much less common in the American cinema (one movie I can think of is "12 Monkeys" - but again you could say this is a British movie despite having American actors).

You left out what I would call the most obvious after 1984, A Clockwork Orange.

I think the key is that Britain never experienced Totalitarianism but was far more exposed to it than we were.  Most of the above are generally along the lines of It Happened Here (which you also forgot), which is the most obvious case of British distopianism simply transporting the Continent's totalitarianism on to England.

American Totalitarianism is often somewhat different. I think Brave New World, though Huxley was British, is far more American.

Oh yeah you are right. Clockwork Orange is one I forgot.

Incidentally, the movies I mentioned (plus Clockwork Orange) are among my absolute favourite.

[Martinus]

You realise that the film is based on a comic book written in the 1980s/early 1990s, right?

I do now.

[Alatriste]

V for Vendetta was a transparent attack on Bush's faith based fanaticism.

'V for Vendetta' is based  on a comic published in 1982. The comic was quite obviously a transparent attack on thatcherism, and the movie only had to make minor changes to make its target broader; for example, it is too a transparent attack on Fox News style journalism (England prevails).

[Alatriste]

I have to think about this longer before answering, but British movies, books and TV series seem to go from a deep nostalgic love for the 20s and the 30s, the days before the Second World War, to a deep mistrust of the future, described as a police and/or fascist state with shades of 1984 (and present days seem very often described as an endless process of economic decadence and social difficulties, 'Full Monty' style).

But I don't think Thatcher is the reason; the British of Tony Blair's years seem equally worried about the omnipresence of surveillance cameras, excessive police powers, gradual erosion of civil liberties, etc, etc.

'1916' is a better watershed.

The Somme?

Incidentally I have watched 'The Magic Flute' of Kenneth Branagh and I was quite shocked initially when I saw he had chosen the trenches of 1914-1918 as background for the story...

[Razgovory]

"Brasil", Loncraine's "Richard III", "V for Vendetta", Jarman's "Edward II" (but also "1984") - there is a very distinct "line" of movies and books in British culture that features this bleak, dystopian police state as the chief enemy - something that is, for example, much less common in the American cinema (one movie I can think of is "12 Monkeys" - but again you could say this is a British movie despite having American actors).

You left out what I would call the most obvious after 1984, A Clockwork Orange.

I think the key is that Britain never experienced Totalitarianism but was far more exposed to it than we were.  Most of the above are generally along the lines of It Happened Here (which you also forgot), which is the most obvious case of British distopianism simply transporting the Continent's totalitarianism on to England.

American Totalitarianism is often somewhat different. I think Brave New World, though Huxley was British, is far more American.

Truthfully I think it's the same thing as watching a horror movie.  Everyone watches and gets the heebies Jeebies but when the light comes on they are still in Britain and not in Poland.

[Admiral Yi]

Marty, you forgot another masterpiece of American distopian filmmaking.  Barb Wire.  A nuanced and sophisticated examination of conflicted loyalties in a world turned upside down.

Re Vendetta: OK, if the book was written in 82 *and* contained the fake attack and the televangelist I'm obviously wrong.

[Queequeg]

Oh yeah you are right. Clockwork Orange is one I forgot.

Incidentally, the movies I mentioned (plus Clockwork Orange) are among my absolute favourite.

Same.  1984 was the first adult novel I ever read, and it had a huge impact on me. 

That said, I think there is probably more in common between various American, Russian and British forms of 20th Century distopianism than you are acknowledging.  They all either draw upon 20th century conflicts between totalitarian powers (V for Vendetta=Spanish Civil War, 1984=WW2/Cold war) or trends visible throughout the 20th century (Pavlovian conditioning for Brave New World and A Clockwork Orange), or parodies of 20th Century Utopianism (virtually all of them, going back to Zamiatin).

[Razgovory]

Marty, you forgot another masterpiece of American distopian filmmaking.  Barb Wire.  A nuanced and sophisticated examination of conflicted loyalties in a world turned upside down.

Re Vendetta: OK, if the book was written in 82 *and* contained the fake attack and the televangelist I'm obviously wrong.

I don't recall a televangelist in the movie or comic book.  And there was a nuclear war in the comic book.

[Alatriste]

Marty, you forgot another masterpiece of American distopian filmmaking.  Barb Wire.  A nuanced and sophisticated examination of conflicted loyalties in a world turned upside down.

Re Vendetta: OK, if the book was written in 82 *and* contained the fake attack and the televangelist I'm obviously wrong.

I don't recall a televangelist in the movie or comic book.  And there was a nuclear war in the comic book.

Neither do I... IIRC the history in the comic was based in a fascist takeover of a democratic state, as in 1933. Moore was (is, probably) radically anarchist and believed the worse would happen without any need for fake attacks, etc. The apathy of the people would suffice, added to racial and sexual prejudices (the movie was quite obvious, but the comic even more, in that 'V' true objective is to shake that apathy and create an Anarchy - with capital A - in Britain)

[Martinus]

Oh yeah you are right. Clockwork Orange is one I forgot.

Incidentally, the movies I mentioned (plus Clockwork Orange) are among my absolute favourite.

Same.  1984 was the first adult novel I ever read, and it had a huge impact on me. 

That said, I think there is probably more in common between various American, Russian and British forms of 20th Century distopianism than you are acknowledging.  They all either draw upon 20th century conflicts between totalitarian powers (V for Vendetta=Spanish Civil War, 1984=WW2/Cold war) or trends visible throughout the 20th century (Pavlovian conditioning for Brave New World and A Clockwork Orange), or parodies of 20th Century Utopianism (virtually all of them, going back to Zamiatin).

Yeah I guess you are right (btw, you are familiar, I hope, with "Master and Margaret" by Bulkhakov? It's one of the best books ever written - of course in case of Russia, if you want to set your story in a dystopian totalitarian world, you just describe reality ).

I just think that this is more pronounced in British cinema, perhaps because these topics resonate better with the fears of the public.

[Martinus]

Marty, you forgot another masterpiece of American distopian filmmaking.  Barb Wire.  A nuanced and sophisticated examination of conflicted loyalties in a world turned upside down.

Re Vendetta: OK, if the book was written in 82 *and* contained the fake attack and the televangelist I'm obviously wrong.

I don't recall a televangelist in the movie or comic book.  And there was a nuclear war in the comic book.

Well the guy was more of a Christian talk show host/personality than a televangelist. He was more of a Rush Limbaugh than Jerry Fallwell type.