Lisbon 2: Referendum in Ireland on the 2nd of October

[Valmy]

"Dear Hungarian voter, would you like to be fucked in the ass with a burning hot crowbar? Twice? Mark your choice"

Hehe.  Next time try not to have a Communist Revolution when Red Terror is gripping the hearts of the men deciding your national boundaries.

[Duque de Bragança]

The Treaty of Trianon was subject to a referendum.

"Dear Hungarian voter, would you like to be fucked in the ass with a burning hot crowbar? Twice? Mark your choice"

Fixed it for you

[Sheilbh]

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is very about the EU and European institutions when you read his other articles.

The Telegraph is very  

So's the British public.

An attitude which begs the question of why hold a formal referendum? If you're just going to treat it as a temporary blip, then why have you bothered with all the expense of setting one up in the first place? You might just as well have taken the result of an opinion poll from that day and declared it the result and saved yourself the money.

The Irish have to have a referendum on every treaty.

On the other hand, if he does back out of a referendum, it will certainly lose the Tories more of their traditional supporters. Given even with the unpopularity of Brown the Tories are only on 36%, not in the 40s as history would have you expect, I don't see how this can be a good thing for long term party survival.

They've been in the 40s for most of 2008 and 2009 and they'll return their shortly:
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/voting-intention

[Crazy_Ivan80]

the result of a referendum should be respected for a reasonable period of time (say 10 years.)

too long, lots changes in 10 years. the reslt of a referendum must and should be instantly challengeable by another referendum (or via other democratic means)

An attitude which begs the question of why hold a formal referendum? If you're just going to treat it as a temporary blip, then why have you bothered with all the expense of setting one up in the first place? You might just as well have taken the result of an opinion poll from that day and declared it the result and saved yourself the money.

You'd fit in at the European Commission just fine.

and what is a referendum else than an opinion poll taken on a particular day if you get really down to it?

[Neil]

and what is a referendum else than an opinion poll taken on a particular day if you get really down to it?

Most referendums are binding in some way.  Also, referendums are for everyone, whereas polls use samples of the population to draw trends.  Operationally, you have to go looking for people to poll, whereas in a referendum they come to you.

[Agelastus]

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard is very about the EU and European institutions when you read his other articles.

The Telegraph is very  

So's the British public.

Nothing wrong with a bit of in a good cause.

Actually, of course, while I can find plenty of rational reasons to dislike the EU (such as their own auditors being unable to sign off their accounts for 13 years) I am perfectly willing to admit that the root of my Euro-scepticism is purely emotional.

An attitude which begs the question of why hold a formal referendum? If you're just going to treat it as a temporary blip, then why have you bothered with all the expense of setting one up in the first place? You might just as well have taken the result of an opinion poll from that day and declared it the result and saved yourself the money.

The Irish have to have a referendum on every treaty.

Because it affects their constitution...as I mentioned earlier in the thread...

Actually, I'll repeat that. I have a great deal of respect for the Irish Supreme Court for the Ruling that led to this situation. I could wish other countries with constitutions affected by these EU treaties were the same.

On the other hand, if he does back out of a referendum, it will certainly lose the Tories more of their traditional supporters. Given even with the unpopularity of Brown the Tories are only on 36%, not in the 40s as history would have you expect, I don't see how this can be a good thing for long term party survival.

They've been in the 40s for most of 2008 and 2009 and they'll return their shortly:
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/voting-intention

From a purely personal perspective, I am deathly afraid that Brown is hanging on long enough to pull the momentum out from under the Tories. After all, the situation of the Eighties (where it took less Tory votes to win a seat than it did Labour votes) has largely been reversed over the last two decades, as recent election results show. Not to mention the way the Liberal Democrats are squeezing in to Tory support.

Although the latter situation may be reversing, if the local elections are a guide; the Tories really do need to regain some of the seats the Libs have taken over the last three General Elections.

On the other hand, the Libs are still polling a good five points to high for comfort in that respect.

See, I'm a worrier...