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WW2 Start Date

Started by Martinus, September 01, 2009, 09:38:41 AM

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When did WW2 truly begin?

September 1, 1939 (Germany invades Poland)
29 (69%)
September 3, 1939 (Britain and France declare war on Germany)
4 (9.5%)
September 17, 1939 (Russia invades Poland)
0 (0%)
May 10, 1940 (Germany invades France)
0 (0%)
June 22, 1941 (Germany invades Russia)
0 (0%)
December 7, 1941 (Pearl Harbor)
1 (2.4%)
Other (Write-in)
8 (19%)

Total Members Voted: 40

DontSayBanana

Quote from: Razgovory on September 01, 2009, 08:12:39 PM
One of the interesting facts about Germany was the before the war they graduating fewer and fewer engineers.  Nazi meddling in education was destroying the pool of skilled German labor.  A surviving Germany would likely be poor, uneducated, and racked by civil war as various party factions fought each other in the streets.  Germany would need either a Stalin figure to purge nearly everyone or the private armies being built up by Himmler and Goring would have tore the country apart when Hitler died.

Hitler was unhealthy, but not so much so that he would have committed suicide if the Germans had a prayer of lasting through the war. Himmler and Goering also would have needed more time to continue building their private armies.

I'm also unsure how much of the engineering shortage was "Nazi meddling in education." Many of the people in positions of power enjoyed seeing the latest toys that the weapons engineers could crank out, so I think a lot of the shortage had more to do with the "conform or pay" populist approach of Nazi conscription methods.
Experience bij!

Razgovory

Hitler probably wouldn't have lasted more then few years.  And Himmler and Goering had very large armies.  There is a reason why the SS was expanding so rapidly and the Luftwaffe was getting ground forces.

Nazi education policies were driving a lot of people away and making those who did stay on less competent.  Things like German Physics were not exactly useful.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Siege

Quote from: Razgovory on September 01, 2009, 08:27:23 PM
Hitler probably wouldn't have lasted more then few years.  And Himmler and Goering had very large armies.  There is a reason why the SS was expanding so rapidly and the Luftwaffe was getting ground forces.

Nazi education policies were driving a lot of people away and making those who did stay on less competent.  Things like German Physics were not exactly useful.

I agree with you on the nazi education policies, but on the private armies, Rome so plenty of that, and it only got stronger, until somebody invented the stirrup.



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Neil

Quote from: Siege on September 01, 2009, 08:57:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 01, 2009, 08:27:23 PM
Hitler probably wouldn't have lasted more then few years.  And Himmler and Goering had very large armies.  There is a reason why the SS was expanding so rapidly and the Luftwaffe was getting ground forces.

Nazi education policies were driving a lot of people away and making those who did stay on less competent.  Things like German Physics were not exactly useful.

I agree with you on the nazi education policies, but on the private armies, Rome so plenty of that, and it only got stronger, until somebody invented the stirrup.
Shouldn't you be googling in order to attempt to school me on turn-of-the-century naval architecture, a topic in which I wrote the book?
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Siege

Quote from: Neil on September 01, 2009, 09:06:19 PM
Shouldn't you be googling in order to attempt to school me on turn-of-the-century naval architecture, a topic in which I wrote the book?

Ok, you win. The Musashi was a pre-dreanought.

Still, it had a larger proportion of high caliber guns. At least you have to give me that.



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Razgovory

Quote from: Siege on September 01, 2009, 08:57:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 01, 2009, 08:27:23 PM
Hitler probably wouldn't have lasted more then few years.  And Himmler and Goering had very large armies.  There is a reason why the SS was expanding so rapidly and the Luftwaffe was getting ground forces.

Nazi education policies were driving a lot of people away and making those who did stay on less competent.  Things like German Physics were not exactly useful.

I agree with you on the nazi education policies, but on the private armies, Rome so plenty of that, and it only got stronger, until somebody invented the stirrup.

Er, it led to civil war.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Siege

Quote from: Razgovory on September 01, 2009, 09:16:40 PM
Quote from: Siege on September 01, 2009, 08:57:30 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 01, 2009, 08:27:23 PM
Hitler probably wouldn't have lasted more then few years.  And Himmler and Goering had very large armies.  There is a reason why the SS was expanding so rapidly and the Luftwaffe was getting ground forces.

Nazi education policies were driving a lot of people away and making those who did stay on less competent.  Things like German Physics were not exactly useful.

I agree with you on the nazi education policies, but on the private armies, Rome so plenty of that, and it only got stronger, until somebody invented the stirrup.

Er, it led to civil war.

But it survived, stronger.



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


derspiess

Quote from: Jaron on September 01, 2009, 08:14:12 PM
You might, but my English is as beautiful as the day is long. :)

Eez eet really?

"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Jaron

Quote from: derspiess on September 01, 2009, 10:40:58 PM
Quote from: Jaron on September 01, 2009, 08:14:12 PM
You might, but my English is as beautiful as the day is long. :)

Eez eet really?



Anything else in that bag of tricks?
Winner of THE grumbler point.

derspiess

Quote from: Jaron on September 01, 2009, 10:42:30 PM
Anything else in that bag of tricks?

I got a couple more in the holster.  Gonna keep my powder dry, though.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Siege

Quote from: derspiess on September 02, 2009, 12:16:40 AM
Quote from: Jaron on September 01, 2009, 10:42:30 PM
Anything else in that bag of tricks?

I got a couple more in the holster.  Gonna keep my powder dry, though.

:lol:   I bet on the guy with the dry powder!




"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"