12-year-old could face life in prison for slaying

[Zanza]

In general I always rather err on the side of leniency. Especially with youth. We don't deem them able to make decisions, so I am fine with not deeming them able to comprehend the full severity of a crime either.

Err... we do deem them able to make decisions, which is why we sentence them.  We find them not as responsible as adults though, which is why we give them lighter sentences.

You are right, I wanted to write "children" instead of "youth". With children being those under 14 years of age.

[Malthus]

Well it's an opinion, so I can't (unlike DGuller) say that you're conclusively wrong.

But I really disagree.  The division between youth and adult crimes is very arbitrary.  It has to be in order to give some certainty to the law, but it can lead to strange results.  I just saw a youth that was charged with a youth crime one week shy of their 18th birthday and get treated as a youth, then get charged one week later and is now an adult, and treated very differently.  Nothing has changed about the youth in the meantime.

But because it's arbitrary there are occasions when it leads to absurd results.  An 18 year old convicted or murder in Canada gets life - automatically.  A 17 year old, sentenced as a youth, would get a maximum of 3 years (and only 2 of that would be in an actual jail).  That's an enormous difference in sentences for a very minor difference in offenders.

That's why I support, in certain circumstances, the possibility of sentencing a youth as an adult.

By the way in Canada it would be very difficult to get an adult sentence on someone between 12 and 14 years, but somewhat easier on someone who is between 14 and 18.

The law always has trouble with crimes either by, or against, people in the transitional years of childhood. This is similar to the "statutory rape" conundrum.

I must say though that there simply has to be some lower limits on the age of children treated as adults for purposes of sentencing. It is positively Dickensian to punish an 11 year old as if they were an adult.

Probably the Canadian way is the best of a bad business.

[Caliga]

An 18 year old convicted or murder in Canada gets life - automatically. 

Homolka?

[Malthus]

An 18 year old convicted or murder in Canada gets life - automatically. 

Homolka?

Plea bargained down to manslaughter, in return for testifying against her husband. Caused a huge scandal, that.

[Caliga]

 

They needed her to testify against him?  Didn't they RECORD THEIR RAPES ON VIDEO!? 

[HVC]

If at 12 he's shooting someone to death in a robbery he's past the point of no return. Keep him locked up. OR give him the french treatment and cut off his pointer fingers so he can't shoot a gun again.

To say that someone at the age of TWELVE is beyond the point of no return is absolute foolishness.  It is not based on any kind of experience or evidence.   The Brain is just barely beginning puberty at that point, and has an enormous amount of developing and maturing to do.

I'd agree with you for things like theft and vandalism, but murder? If a 12 year old sees nothing wrong with killing someone while robbing them i don't believe he'll get better once he becomes an adult.

[Barrister]

To say that someone at the age of TWELVE is beyond the point of no return is absolute foolishness.  It is not based on any kind of experience or evidence.   The Brain is just barely beginning puberty at that point, and has an enormous amount of developing and maturing to do.

I'd agree with you for things like theft and vandalism, but murder? If a 12 year old sees nothing wrong with killing someone while robbing them i don't believe he'll get better once he becomes an adult.

You can believe whatever you like.  Do you have any evidence to back up that belief however?

My understanding of recidivism rates for youths, even those charged with very a serious offence, is far, far less than 100%.  That is - most youths who commit a serious violent offense do not commit further offences.

And what does "all better" mean?  I suppose that even if a purely normal child was charged with murder, the mere fact of going through the system and being convicted will ensure that youth will never be purely "normal" ever again.  But will that person commit further crimes?  Or can they become a contributing member of society?  Possibly.

[Barrister]

They needed her to testify against him?  Didn't they RECORD THEIR RAPES ON VIDEO!? 

The deal was made before the tapes were found.

The controversy was whether what was shown on those tapes meant that Homolka had violated the terms of the deal, and coult still be prosecuted for murder.  The Crown decided not to pursue that angle, and stuck by the deal.

[Ed Anger]

I want those tapes.

[Malthus]

They needed her to testify against him?  Didn't they RECORD THEIR RAPES ON VIDEO!? 

The deal was made before the tapes were found. Obviously, it would not have been made after.

The fact that the lawyers for Bernardo had the tapes and did not turn them over to the cops was ANOTHER big scandal connected with this trial. 

At the time the deal was made, H's testimony was the *only* evidence the prosecution had connecting B. to the crimes.

[Malthus]

I want those tapes.

The tapes were destroyed.

Allegedly, they made very difficult watching.

[Ed Anger]

I want those tapes.

The tapes were destroyed.

Allegedly, they made very difficult watching.

Suposedly. I know there is a Mountie out there with some bootlegs.

I am extremely curious.

[Barrister]

I want those tapes.

The tapes were destroyed.

Allegedly, they made very difficult watching.

Suposedly. I know there is a Mountie out there with some bootlegs.

I am extremely curious.

It wouldn't be a Mountie.  OPP maybe, or Niagara Regional Police or TPS, but not the Mounties. 

If any police officer (or Crown) was found to have kept a copy of those tapes despite judicial court order they'd be charged six ways from Sunday.

[Ed Anger]

I want those tapes.

The tapes were destroyed.

Allegedly, they made very difficult watching.

Suposedly. I know there is a Mountie out there with some bootlegs.

I am extremely curious.

It wouldn't be a Mountie.  OPP maybe, or Niagara Regional Police or TPS, but not the Mounties. 

If any police officer (or Crown) was found to have kept a copy of those tapes despite judicial court order they'd be charged six ways from Sunday.

Thank you Captain Buzzkill. My profuse apologies for killing some time. 

[Admiral Yi]

Thank you Captain Buzzkill. My profuse apologies for killing some time. 

Just videotape yourself with your wife.  Same effect. :p