Victoria 2

[Razgovory]

HOI2 was okay when released.  Hoi1 was not.

[dps]

It's been so long, I'll admit that I don't remember what EU1 was like on first release.  Actually, I don't think that I was even aware of its existance until it had been out a while, so I don't think I experienced it in its primordial state.      But EU2 definately had a lot of problems, not just with things not working as intended, but with crash bugs and problems with saves being corrupted, too--though not as bad as CK.

[Razgovory]

It's been so long, I'll admit that I don't remember what EU1 was like on first release.  Actually, I don't think that I was even aware of its existance until it had been out a while, so I don't think I experienced it in its primordial state.      But EU2 definately had a lot of problems, not just with things not working as intended, but with crash bugs and problems with saves being corrupted, too--though not as bad as CK.

EU1 had a great deal of problems as well.  I remember an exploit where you could start an assualt then stop it over and over and it quickly make any fortress.  Also you could annex any country that wasn't a great power.  The ottoman empire could become really big really fast!

[Josephus]

I remember in EU1 1.0, you can be losing a war and still make peace for +250 ducats.

Aaah, EU 1, those were the days.

[Tamas]

I remember in EU1 1.0, you can be losing a war and still make peace for +250 ducats.

Aaah, EU 1, those were the days.

I played it in german because that release was like months before the english one, then Paradox offered an exchange for people who bought the german game. I don't remember if I had to send them my german copy or just the box... As a matter of fact, where is my EU1 box?!! 
I wish they or someone else could make something as revolutionary to the genre again. In some ways Vicky1 was like that, at least tried because no one before it tried to simulate so much.

I have been thinking recently that going for character-driven mechanisms is probably the next evolutionary step for historical games. I know EU Rome is a failure but if you ignore the parts where they fell short you'll see that they took characters almost as detailed as in CK, and put them in an interaction model which is (with the expansion) way more detailed and involved than in CK, and attached it to most of the other features, and it works. In fact if some modder would turn Rome's world map into like map of ancient Greece so it looks less stupid, that game could shine.

So you see, the driving force behind history is men and their ambitions. Not only a driving force, but the source of most of the great stories in it, but apart from some Paradox games it has been ignored. Vicky1 tried to simulate that on the "plebs" level and with severe shortcomings, but did achieve some of it. CK made a half-assed attempt on the ruler class, Rome expanded on that very much, too bad it is the only aspect of the game which is not a step back from EU-engine depth (also the system for the barbarians is also neat).

In other words: give me my CK2 goddamit! 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

the next revolution to be made in the genre is the game that manages to span several eras and simulate the great changes during them. Basically a joining of CK, EU, Vicky and Hoi.
Given the massiveness of that I don't see it happen.

[Tamas]

the next revolution to be made in the genre is the game that manages to span several eras and simulate the great changes during them. Basically a joining of CK, EU, Vicky and Hoi.
Given the massiveness of that I don't see it happen.

Yeah, one day it will hopefully happen but what I would like to see is proper detail and attention given to a single period first.

[Josquius]

the next revolution to be made in the genre is the game that manages to span several eras and simulate the great changes during them. Basically a joining of CK, EU, Vicky and Hoi.
Given the massiveness of that I don't see it happen.

I'm not so sure how that could work in a fun way even if they do perfectly model all the eras.
Players will just create their super empire before they get past the first few centuries and then it'll be too easy. The only way to fix this is through crappy ai cheats.

[jimmy olsen]

I'm not suprised--the time period isn't especially appealing for the EU engine. Plus the game design was overambitious with the pops and economic model. With any paradox release I want to wait until multiple patches and possible expansion packs have been released, but I'm tempted to say it is wise to wait for at least the second game in the series as well.

I played the shit out of EU1.

EU is the gold standard for Paradox--I'll give you EU1. CK and Victoria left a lot more to be desired. Never played HOI.

I played the shit out of CK. It's an awesome game.

[Lettow77]

 I wonder if they will handle the war better this time around? even VIP, it was alot of silliness.

[Ideologue]

the next revolution to be made in the genre is the game that manages to span several eras and simulate the great changes during them. Basically a joining of CK, EU, Vicky and Hoi.
Given the massiveness of that I don't see it happen.

I don't want to see that happen, because I'm positive it couldn't work.

Heck, the HoI series doesn't even do a good job simulating the length and breadth of World War II, it's own narrow focus.

[sbr]

As much fun as a game like that would be to play, if done perfectly, the odds are it would end up a big pile of steaming crap halfway through the first era.

[DGuller]

Yeah, I don't see multi-era games working well.  For one thing, no game of that type has done anything to prevent constant blobbification, which makes it impossible to keep the game challenging for long.  How do you periodically shrink the human player empires without making the player feel like he just wasted his time?

[alfred russel]

the next revolution to be made in the genre is the game that manages to span several eras and simulate the great changes during them. Basically a joining of CK, EU, Vicky and Hoi.
Given the massiveness of that I don't see it happen.

I don't want to see that happen, because I'm positive it couldn't work.

Heck, the HoI series doesn't even do a good job simulating the length and breadth of World War II, it's own narrow focus.

I'm with you on that--I wish they wouldn't keep expanding the scope of the games they have. EU3 is a bit silly imo when you have european powers converting the religion of provinces at the end of the game and protestants having a cb on catholics (and vice versa, dependent on an idea).

[Josquius]

Yeah, I don't see multi-era games working well.  For one thing, no game of that type has done anything to prevent constant blobbification, which makes it impossible to keep the game challenging for long.  How do you periodically shrink the human player empires without making the player feel like he just wasted his time?

All that springs to mind for me is increasing the focus periodically.
i.e. starts with a small region, war between cities and all that then it expands out to a bigger area then a bigger area...
The player technically loses nothing but as he becomes the big fish in his small pond he then graduates to being just another nation in another area (albeit still based on his earlier work)

Like Spore but not shit.
Anyway, I agree it wouldn't work.