How do you add diversity?

[Faeelin]

Yes, that is the concern. My problem is that I don't see the concern; law review articles are written by professors, so why should we be patronizing black professors over their colleagues? Rewarding diverse scholarship is one thing, and IMO that's hindered by not having blind review.

Obviously, Black Law School Professors are severely disadvantaged folks. 

I'm debating pointing this out tomorrow, but I've been warned not to come by a 3l who's a friend of mine and is stressing out about the drama.

[Malthus]

Yes, that is the concern. My problem is that I don't see the concern; law review articles are written by professors, so why should we be patronizing black professors over their colleagues? Rewarding diverse scholarship is one thing, and IMO that's hindered by not having blind review.

Obviously, Black Law School Professors are severely disadvantaged folks. 

I'm debating pointing this out tomorrow, but I've been warned not to come by a 3l who's a friend of mine and is stressing out about the drama.

You'll probably earn nothing but hatred and abuse if you point out that this particular Emperor Has No Clothes. 

Of course, when you are a student is as good a time as any to twist a few tails. I never took the safe route, didn't harm me any - so far.

But just be prepared for a Languish-like experience.

[Admiral Yi]

Don't do it mang.  You'll end up eating lunch with the ugly kids.

[alfred russel]

Malthus, at least in the US I'd disagree to a certain extent with regard to lawyers. Many governmental entities as well as large corporations have minority and gender requirements for service providers including law firms. For this and other reasons, there is a demand for diverse candidates.

[Malthus]

Malthus, at least in the US I'd disagree to a certain extent with regard to lawyers. Many governmental entities as well as large corporations have minority and gender requirements for service providers including law firms. For this and other reasons, there is a demand for diverse candidates.

If law firms have "diversity requirement" quotas, I've never heard of it. I've done work for the US gov't as a contractor, they never inquired about my gender or race ...

Gender typically isn't an issue in the legal field, about half of young lawyers are women.

Maybe in the US there are other considerations, but I must admit, none of my American lawyer friends or clients (I frequently work for US entities) have ever mentioned them. I'm guessing that unless you are working for very specific clients, they aren't a big deal. 

[alfred russel]

Malthus, at least in the US I'd disagree to a certain extent with regard to lawyers. Many governmental entities as well as large corporations have minority and gender requirements for service providers including law firms. For this and other reasons, there is a demand for diverse candidates.

If law firms have "diversity requirement" quotas, I've never heard of it. I've done work for the US gov't as a contractor, they never inquired about my gender or race ...

Gender typically isn't an issue in the legal field, about half of young lawyers are women.

Maybe in the US there are other considerations, but I must admit, none of my American lawyer friends or clients (I frequently work for US entities) have ever mentioned them. I'm guessing that unless you are working for very specific clients, they aren't a big deal.

I've never heard of a law firm with a diversity requirement quota either. I don't know of any federal requirements, but I do know there are cities that require a certain percentage of work go to firms with minority or female equity stakes as well as taking into account diversity policies for other significant law firms.

I've also heard of Fortune 100 companies evaluating law firms based on diversity, but my guess is that law school grads are diverse enough that any large firm that makes any effort to be diverse is going to pass and it won't be a big deal.

[Faeelin]

Don't do it mang.  You'll end up eating lunch with the ugly kids.

Actually, I feel like I'd get a bit of slack, since it's hard to tell the gay guy to stop being so bigoted.

@Malthus: Lots of firms have "diversity programs," so I know a lot of people who got jobs their 1l summer so firms can show "we hired unpriveliged Latinos whose parents slaved away in Beverly Hills as plastic surgeons!"

When recruiting, they also like to play up diversity; every firm I interviewed with, frex, had a list of how many minorities they hired.

[alfred russel]

Malthus, here is an article that discusses the issue (it is the first article that popped up after a google search):

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/03/13/debating-law-firms-and-affirmative-action-again/

[Malthus]

Malthus, at least in the US I'd disagree to a certain extent with regard to lawyers. Many governmental entities as well as large corporations have minority and gender requirements for service providers including law firms. For this and other reasons, there is a demand for diverse candidates.

If law firms have "diversity requirement" quotas, I've never heard of it. I've done work for the US gov't as a contractor, they never inquired about my gender or race ...

Gender typically isn't an issue in the legal field, about half of young lawyers are women.

Maybe in the US there are other considerations, but I must admit, none of my American lawyer friends or clients (I frequently work for US entities) have ever mentioned them. I'm guessing that unless you are working for very specific clients, they aren't a big deal.

I've never heard of a law firm with a diversity requirement quota either. I don't know of any federal requirements, but I do know there are cities that require a certain percentage of work go to firms with minority or female equity stakes as well as taking into account diversity policies for other significant law firms.

I've also heard of Fortune 100 companies evaluating law firms based on diversity, but my guess is that law school grads are diverse enough that any large firm that makes any effort to be diverse is going to pass and it won't be a big deal.

Law firms that do work for municipal govt's = a tiny and specialized sub-percentage.

I've never in life heard of a major corporate client giving a shit about the "diversity" of the law firms they use.

It is possible that certain large firms publish some guidance or policy statements that *claim* that they do, but the reality is that most contracted-out legal work is on an ad hoc basis - the corporate client invariably has in-house counsel with ties to one (or more) outside firms, and directs the work accordingly. Occasionally, there is a "dog and pony show" for a big file for a client, where a firm is unsatisfied with whom they are using and are looking around - in such cases, available proven talent vs. price is what governs.

Any statements by firms to the contrary I would assume, absent firm evidence to the contrary, as being purely for media consumption. The movers and shakers who actually direct the work would think you were positively brain-damaged if you suggested taking on a bunch of lawyers who had less talent, were less well connected, and were more expensive, simply because they were "more diverse". 

[Admiral Yi]

Actually, I feel like I'd get a bit of slack, since it's hard to tell the gay guy to stop being so bigoted.

The forces of political correctness love nothing better than to purge one of their own who has sinned.

Totally anecdotally, I heard from from a couple of freshly-minted Korean-American JDs that female Asian lawyers could write their own ticket when it came to hiring.  This was back in the early/mid 90s.

[Malthus]

Malthus, here is an article that discusses the issue (it is the first article that popped up after a google search):

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/03/13/debating-law-firms-and-affirmative-action-again/

Article is short on details about this alleged "pressure".

One thing is certain - if it exists, it is a purely US domestic issue.

[alfred russel]

malthus, it isn't so cut and dried. when you bring in a group of students for interviews, who is the best?

Diversity is a big deal here: discriminations settlements have run into the hundreds of millions for fortune 100 companies that contend they did nothing wrong. Many companies have put in place board members with backgrounds in civil rights to oversee diversity policies which include vendor reviews. In the real world, people are mostly focused on the bottom line and performance versus pay, but for a law firm gaining a significant amount of business it won't be unheard of for a review of minority participation and hiring/promotion/hr policies at the firm.

[Faeelin]

Sigh. Some women are now angry that a lower number of women are being published than men in the journal, a sure sign of passive discrimination.

Apparently it is very hard for them to respond to:

Finally, I must ask why we are limiting ourselves to women and people of color. Is it not a problem if queer individuals are underrepresented? If you're concerned about underrepresentation of minority groups, go ahead and count the number of federal judges who are openly gay or lesbian.

Now, the obvious answer, at least to me, is that I am not sure what a person's race/gender/sexual orientation/favorite pizza has to do with their legal analysis  the SEC's regulation of bundled securities transfers. If an individual's experience as a minority is related to the piece, that should reveal itself in the quality of the piece. And I have enough faith in our classmates to think they would recognize that.

[DontSayBanana]

Sigh. Some women are now angry that a lower number of women are being published than men in the journal, a sure sign of passive discrimination.

Apparently it is very hard for them to respond to:

Sigh indeed.  I love how everybody misses the Bakke memo that quota systems are verbot.

[Fate]

At least in the medical field, it's beneficial to consider diversity because many patients are racists and tend to desire doctors of their own ethnicity. The health of the black community as a whole is better served by having less qualified black doctors than having higher qualified white doctors. Then there's the additional consideration that a minority doctor is more likely to return to medically underserved communities than a white doctor.