What makes a person a particular race?

[Princesca]

I'm getting horny.

Caricature!

[Caliga]

Caricature!

Yes ma'am. 

[saskganesh]

well, what makes me race is a good pair of trainers.

[Eddie Teach]

Caricature!

Tell us, how often does Cal eat at gas stations?

[merithyn]

No, but I have truly hispanic friends who I can tell, from even a brief conversation, are hispanic. They might casually mention their abuela. They might have an accent. They (god forbid) LOOK hispanic. They might talk about their cousin's quinceanera. These are just examples.

I admit, I haven't read every thread you've ever posted in on Languish, but this is the first time, in all the years I've known of your existence, that I have ever heard you claim to be Mexican. I had no idea you even had any Mexican heritage, as aforementioned. My point is, you don't look Mexican, you didn't act in any respect Mexican, and I tend to think, if you truly are a race, it's something that comes to the fore wherever you are, not just when you're with Mexican relatives. I mean, if I stay a few weeks in Louisiana, I might pick up a Creole accent, but that doesn't make me Creole in any respect, nor does the fact that I might like and even know how to cook jambalaya.

I think that's a fair statement. I do know that I've mentioned my background numerous times here, though. However, while I may not have mentioned my niece's $10,000 quincenera here, I attended it, and my boys were two of her attendants. (I can post the pics, if you'd like.) I chose not to have a quincenera when I turned 15 because I was embarrassed to have one as a white girl, and I've carried that with me a long time. As this thread shows, I struggle with what I am: white or Mexican? I look white, people assume that I am white, and so I've stuck with that so as not to "pretend to be something I'm not."

That's since been shaken up by a lot of discussions here at the school about race and what it means to "decide" one's race, as many of our children and parents struggle with. My background came up in a discussion with our administrators, and my principal said that I was silly not to claim Mexican. (She's black.) It was the first time I'd heard that, and it made me think long and hard about it.

As I said, I still struggle with it - especially with reactions like yours, "You don't look or act Mexican, so you're white" - but I'm not as adverse to saying that I am one or the other. I am, in fact, both.

[Eddie Teach]

You can be Mexican if you want, but you'll never be a mestiza. As others, have said, Hispanic is not a race.

[Caliga]

You can be Mexican if you want, but you'll never be a mestiza. As others, have said, Hispanic is not a race.

Well, if we're going to be technical about it, shouldn't she have to obtain Mexican citizenship to be a Mexican?

[Valmy]

Well, if we're going to be technical about it, shouldn't she have to obtain Mexican citizenship to be a Mexican?

Yeah I call the locals Tejanos or Latinos.  Most of them are no more Mexican than I am.

If you REALLY want to piss somebody off go to Santa Fe and call a local Latino, whose family has lived there for 500 years, a 'Mexican'.

[garbon]

knows nothing about the culture or language, but to you he's Indian despite that?

Hey now, I studied Hindi for a year!

[garbon]

No, but I have truly hispanic friends who I can tell, from even a brief conversation, are hispanic. They might casually mention their abuela. They might have an accent. They (god forbid) LOOK hispanic. They might talk about their cousin's quinceanera. These are just examples.

I admit, I haven't read every thread you've ever posted in on Languish, but this is the first time, in all the years I've known of your existence, that I have ever heard you claim to be Mexican. I had no idea you even had any Mexican heritage, as aforementioned. My point is, you don't look Mexican, you didn't act in any respect Mexican, and I tend to think, if you truly are a race, it's something that comes to the fore wherever you are, not just when you're with Mexican relatives. I mean, if I stay a few weeks in Louisiana, I might pick up a Creole accent, but that doesn't make me Creole in any respect, nor does the fact that I might like and even know how to cook jambalaya.

I have to agree. Until last night, between having met Meri and the years on the board, I had no idea about her Mexican heritage. I think I might recall a very small mention about her foster parents, but I never realized it was such an important part of her identity. Cool.

[garbon]

"Race" is a subset of that, in that the common ancesty or origin is defined, not by yourself, but rather by a real or alleged physical similarity or genetic commonality.

It is a peculiarity of the US that the Black "race" (and to a lesser extent native american "race") is subject to the 'one drop rule' - in that even the smallest amount of Black features suffices to catagorize one, in the eyes of others, as "Black".

So while in general ethnicity is more or less self chosen, in the specific case of Black Americans one will be considered "Black" even if one has no Black cultural traits and only a visible minimum of Black shared ancestry. In contrast, by and large a person of hispanic origin could, if they so choose, self-identify as "White American" by adopting White American traits and identifying themselves as White; similarly with Jews and the like.

Actually, I think that's the simplistic version of it.  After all, if you do have some (let's say distant) black heritage but your features aren't seen to be black, people aren't going to consider you black. It isn't so much about the actual drops involved but how people identify your features.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

What is the context?  I think race in this country is completely self identified.

But if they are applying for a black scholarship or something they probably need to have the right physical traits.

In our school district, a child must pick a race - a single race - when they register for school. "Other" is not an option, neither is "mixed race". So, in order to register for school, the parents much choose a race. If one is not chosen, the default is "white".

Lame.... in this day and age Mixed heritage should be a very obvious option. If you are going to bother with such categorizing and racial profiling of children.

[The Larch]

So what do you have going on on you to make yourself identify as Hispanic? Which Hispanic cultural traits do you display?

I was 19 before I knew what the English word for "underwear". (They were casones(sp?) to me.) I still refer to things in Spanish without thinking about it, i.e. my daughter is "m'ja", rice is "sopa", and my nose is and has always been my "nadiz". I eat beans and rice with a torn off piece of tortilla at home rather than a fork. I no longer cross myself when I go by a cemetery or church, though I did for most of my life.

There are probably a lot more things, but in all honesty, I don't even recognize them as "different". It's what we do, how we live. Even my biological parents have adjusted and changed due to their close relationship with my foster parents. To my foster family, I am their daughter/sister, though I'm a "weda" (sp?). They are no less my family than my biological parents and siblings. When my foster father and sister died (at different times), my little sister and I were listed in the obituary as their immediate family, were included in the preparations, and were expected to be there with the family for all visitations, etc.

We were literally raised by these people. Much more so than by my biological parents.

I don't doubt your attachment to this family (some of the things you mention appear to be more a close relationship with them, which is perfectly understandable and normal), or that you have picked up things from them, but going as far as making you feel Hispanic seems quite weird from my point of view. Did you get to learn Spanish? You seem to have slipped a bit with it (It's calzones, mi hija and nariz. Sopa doesn't mean rice, but soup. It's arroz the word you're looking for).

[The Brain]

Is it their culture or their biology?

For instance, if a black person is adopted by a white family and raised culturally white, are they still "black"? Additionally, if a person has a Mexican father and a white mother, is raised not knowing Spanish but spends equal time with both, what race do they put down on the census form? (We're assuming no "other" exists on said form.)

My sister and I were raised Mexican culturally because we were fostered out when we were very young - I was three, my sister was two months old - and lived with said foster family until we were nearing our teen years. However, our biological family is Welsh and English, and we both lived with them during our teen years. My younger sister speaks Spanish fluently, but I only understand bits and pieces of it. What race are we?

P.S. Neil, I <3 you, but stay out. I'm seriously wondering what people think constitutes a "race" under these circumstances, sans troll.

What kind of faggoty ass third world country asks about "race" on a census form? That's beyond retarded.

[katmai]

  That's not very good at telling me what my race is.

Oreo!