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Animals you consider too smart to eat

Started by Ideologue, August 13, 2009, 06:59:57 AM

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The Larch

Cephalopods are too delicious to not be eaten.

Berkut

If they were really smart, we wouldn't need to have this debate.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Ideologue

Quote from: Caliga on August 13, 2009, 07:46:11 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 13, 2009, 07:24:39 AM
Cal, answer me this: how would you square the rights of primates with this putative right of a human predator to eat one? (Primates up to and including humans, even.) :unsure:
Because, as I've said before, I don't think there should be a connection between intelligence and eligibility to be consumed. 

There are extraordinary social taboos against human cannibalism, but I don't think it really goes against nature.  Isn't there ample evidence that humans have practiced it for like 99% of the time our species has existed?  I have no desire to eat human meat but I'd do so in an emergency, as I know we all would whether or not we're willing to admit to it (e.g. Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571).

Yeah, but necessity permits behaviors that would ordinarily be considered immoral.  Of course I'd eat some dude if it meant I wouldn't die.  But outside of necessity, I would consider it immoral, outside of the social taboos and the general predisposition many species have against eating their own.
Kinemalogue
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Lettow77

I will not eat  animals that enjoy companion status with man, but Caliga- to say we 'all' would resort to cannibalism is simply untrue.

Many people with qualms would instead be eaten, or die starving.
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Ideologue

Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2009, 07:51:03 AM
If they were really smart, we wouldn't need to have this debate.

Not necessarily--people actually did and do eat apes and dolphin often enough, but more modern sensibilities tend to be repulsed at the notion, due to a growing recognition of intelligence.

Marine creatures and deep marine creatures especially are not predisposed to intensive observation by human eyes of their behavior--cephalopod intelligence wasn't likely to be discovered until the latter half of the 20th century, when both a scientific mindset toward the subject as well as the technology and resources to study the subject existed.
Kinemalogue
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PDH

Any that would see me coming, grab a rock and kill and eat me first - that is where I draw the line.
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HisMajestyBOB

To be honest, no. I've had Guinea pig, I love squid, I've had dog (tastes like beef, btw). I wish I had tried ox and horse when I was in Mongolia. I'll try pretty much anything that's tasty and not human.
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Admiral Yi

Quote from: Ideologue on August 13, 2009, 07:56:48 AM
Not necessarily--people actually did and do eat apes and dolphin often enough, but more modern sensibilities tend to be repulsed at the notion, due to a growing recognition of intelligence.
I think it has more to do with charisma than intelligence.

Berkut

Quote from: Ideologue on August 13, 2009, 07:56:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 13, 2009, 07:51:03 AM
If they were really smart, we wouldn't need to have this debate.

Not necessarily--people actually did and do eat apes and dolphin often enough, but more modern sensibilities tend to be repulsed at the notion, due to a growing recognition of intelligence.


If they are not smart enough to avoid being a tasty snack, then they are not smart enough to worry about, obviously.
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Caliga

Quote from: Lettow77 on August 13, 2009, 07:54:42 AM
I will not eat  animals that enjoy companion status with man, but Caliga- to say we 'all' would resort to cannibalism is simply untrue.

Many people with qualms would instead be eaten, or die starving.
I guess there's no way to know the answer to the question of whether or not we all would resort to cannibalism with certainty until we put everyone into a starvation situation and see what happens.  I believe that more would partake than would not however.
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The Larch

Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 13, 2009, 07:57:11 AM
To be honest, no. I've had Guinea pig, I love squid, I've had dog (tastes like beef, btw). I wish I had tried ox and horse when I was in Mongolia. I'll try pretty much anything that's tasty and not human.

No need to go to Mongolia to eat horse, it's relatively common in Italy and France, for instance.

HisMajestyBOB

Quote from: The Larch on August 13, 2009, 08:04:15 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 13, 2009, 07:57:11 AM
To be honest, no. I've had Guinea pig, I love squid, I've had dog (tastes like beef, btw). I wish I had tried ox and horse when I was in Mongolia. I'll try pretty much anything that's tasty and not human.

No need to go to Mongolia to eat horse, it's relatively common in Italy and France, for instance.

Never knew that. Though Italy and France is not exactly a day trip, either. ;)
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Admiral Yi

I saw commercials on French TV for horse.

Grey Fox

You can buy Horse meat at the market here. They also got Kangoroo meat, which is awesome.
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Caliga

Quote from: Ideologue on August 13, 2009, 07:53:39 AMYeah, but necessity permits behaviors that would ordinarily be considered immoral.  Of course I'd eat some dude if it meant I wouldn't die.  But outside of necessity, I would consider it immoral, outside of the social taboos and the general predisposition many species have against eating their own.
But in fact there are species which do engage in cannibalism, which tells me that it's as natural a behavior as avoiding it.  If a carnivorous species doesn't engage in cannibalism, there's probably an evolutionary advantage to not doing so for that particular species.

If I'm correct in my assumption that throughout most of its existence, the human species has been a habitual cannibal, then I think this demonstrates that cannibalism is a natural behavior for us.

I think the notion that it is immoral 'outside of social taboos' is irrelevant because we have no way of ever getting outside of those social taboos unless society goes away, in which case I don't think you can predict what becomes normal vs. abnormal, since we have no reference points for humans lacking society.
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