[Eve Online] Anyone want to do some mining?

[crazy canuck]

If you want to mine, go for a Retriever, imo. And get your drone skills up.

Thanks Berkut

[crazy canuck]

The interface seems better since I last played and I really like the skill queing.

[Alcibiades]

The queing is amazing.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Hm.  Section XIII has left TCF.  AFAIK, they were the major PVP corp in that alliance. 

They joined Pandemic Legion.

[MadBurgerMaker]

You titan haters should be happy.  RA and XDeath just iced one belonging to Black Nova Corp (one of the former BoB/Kenzoku corps). 

http://killboard.legionofdeath.info/index.php?op=kill&id=385512

Look at all the stuff that dropped.  Somebody just made a bunch of isk from that.

[Cecil]

The 0.0 changes sounds excellent in the dominion expansion. I also like some of the more unconfirmed rumours going around. That moongoo is going to be taken out of the hands of the big alliances, that you get to upgrade your space so more can live there and that alliances cannot hold huge swathes of space they can afkdefend. Add to that titans getting kicked down, defending space being harder and POS bashing going away it sounds excellent. A dev also said that space will cost money to pay for upkeep with upkeep getting exponentially higher the more space you hold almost makes me wanting to go to 0.0, if I restart playing that is.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Hopefully that rumor (?) about "taking the moongoo out of the hands of big alliances" is just that, since...how would they do that without just getting rid of moon mining?  The only difference between an R64 run by a big alliance and an R64 run by a small corp is.....well there really isn't one that I know of.....I guess the smaller corp will have fewer logistics type guys so maybe they get burned out faster?  Then again, the big corp will have more moons for the logistics guys to take care off, so that probably evens out the burnout/ragequit rate.  The small corp dudes probably get a bigger share, but the big alliance guys have more to skim from.  Hm.

But yeah, only having to shoot staging, mining, bridge, etc, POS instead of hundreds of sov holding POS is excellent (unless they fuck it up).

Edit:  Shell alliances appear to be the way to get around the whole cost of living thing with the limited info so far.

[Berkut]

Even if they fuck it up, any change is better than what exists now.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Even if they fuck it up, any change is better than what exists now.

Well if they fuck it up badly enough, they'll have to roll it back, and it'll be even longer until this shit is changed properly.   

e: goddammit, I still need to get off my ass and join your corp Berk.  All I've been doing for the last <#> months is changing skills (in an Atlas station no less) and giving CCP money.

[Alcibiades]

Yeah my alt's ready for whenever, hes stationed in yarebap mining the systems...pretty good spot to be honest.

[Berkut]

Just apply whenever.

Its not all that exciting though, at the moment.

[Cecil]

Hopefully that rumor (?) about "taking the moongoo out of the hands of big alliances" is just that, since...how would they do that without just getting rid of moon mining?  The only difference between an R64 run by a big alliance and an R64 run by a small corp is.....well there really isn't one that I know of.....I guess the smaller corp will have fewer logistics type guys so maybe they get burned out faster?  Then again, the big corp will have more moons for the logistics guys to take care off, so that probably evens out the burnout/ragequit rate.  The small corp dudes probably get a bigger share, but the big alliance guys have more to skim from.  Hm.

But yeah, only having to shoot staging, mining, bridge, etc, POS instead of hundreds of sov holding POS is excellent (unless they fuck it up).

Edit:  Shell alliances appear to be the way to get around the whole cost of living thing with the limited info so far.

Well from what I´ve heard the ores normally only gained from moons will also be avaliable from normal mining. Assuming this is not complete bull it wont remove moonmining but it will remove the stranglehold 3-4 big alliances have on the entire tech 2 market since the ores is where the big money is. Also I´ve never really liked the concept behind the moons since it funnels the majority of the income into the corps instead of the individuals in a corp. Corps and alliances should gain the majority of their income from taxes in their territory not from an activity that is essentially afk. Though I realize that uptil now that concept hasnt really been possible. Well anyway I´ll be happy when members in 0.0 alliances/corps actually lives there instead of running lvl fours in empire high sec.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Well from what I´ve heard the ores normally only gained from moons will also be avaliable from normal mining. Assuming this is not complete bull it wont remove moonmining but it will remove the stranglehold 3-4 big alliances have on the entire tech 2 market since the ores is where the big money is.

Why would crashing moon mineral prices be a good thing?  Large alliances aren't the only groups who have POSes at these moons, and they don't all exist in 0.0.  There's more than just the R64's that huge battles are fought over.

Also I´ve never really liked the concept behind the moons since it funnels the majority of the income into the corps instead of the individuals in a corp.

That depends on the alliance of course, but things like reimbursement programs which seem to generally depend relatively heavily on moon mineral income aren't particularly rare that I know of.  GoonSwarm also does things like subsidize a member's first capital ship, and reimburse capital losses after that so the member doesn't necessarily have to rat (or rat as much, because ratting sucks ass and is boring and dangerous), etc, to get back into the ship if they happen to lose one on an operation.  They've been doing this for a while, but expanded it when they started getting more income from the Devle/Querious moons.  They also use some of it to drop new stations that people can use, etc.  If those aren't some benefits for alliance members that come directly from moon income, I don't know what is. 

Of course, a whole shitload of that money also goes to fueling and maintaing POSes all over the goddamn place so that alliance members have a place to live, at least in the case of the large alliances and their R64s and huge swaths of shitty, nearly worthless territory (this is why they have so much...it takes a lot of non Delve and non Drone Region space to support a larger alliance).

Corps and alliances should gain the majority of their income from taxes in their territory not from an activity that is essentially afk. Though I realize that uptil now that concept hasnt really been possible. Well anyway I´ll be happy when members in 0.0 alliances/corps actually lives there instead of running lvl fours in empire high sec.

Moon mining is most definitely not an afk activity.  They have to run those POSes, after all.  They have to ship the shit somewhere to actually use or sell it, etc.  And yeah, an alliance funding itself entirely through taxes isn't possible right now that I know of, or at least not without totally breaking their member bank accounts, I guess. 

And yeah, the empire mission running thing fucking blows, but the risk vs. reward deal in 0.0 sucks so bad that it's easier, faster, safer, and more profitable to just run missions with an NPC corp alt in a .5 or whatever system than it is to.......rat......in 0.0, ducking into a station or cloaking up at a safespot when a red or neut enters local.  No one is going to be able to gank your ratting ship with just a Pilgrim in highsec. 

I really want to see what goes on with these improvements though.  Also, I kinda wonder what's going to happen with CSAA's.

[Cecil]

Crashing moonmineral prices is good because the alliances controlling get too fucking rich. When alliances dont even care if they loose a couple of titans and hundreds of dreads and carriers over a weekend because they can replace them in the time it takes for the clonescreen to load for the people who just got podded balance is out of whack badly. Yes I´m overstating it but I remember reading about a PL op a bit back when they lost 2 complete fleets of dreads in a single night and the major problem of that was that their other ships was not in range so they could get back in the fight quickly enough it means that losses doesnt matter one iota anymore. PvPtards often claim that Eve is a cold hard place or similar shit. Start living by that rule then instead of just forcing on miners in their hulks or other carebears. Losses should matter otherwise TF2 is that way.

Besides with a stangnant amount of moongoo and an increasing subscriber base well....supply and demand and CCP have stated that they arent happy with that.

And I know moonmining isnt free but it has a profitmargin of selling cocaine in RL and thats just not good. Its just been a required game mechanic since 0.0 is too damn poor outside moons. And yes it takes some efforts but compared to mining its negliable. Its not like this game is the same as 4 years ago. Transporting stuff is hardly that much of an effort now. There is a reason why soo many complain over that space has gotten so small. You can get from one end to the other pretty quick these days.   

And with those words I´m off to some sun and nice food. See ya´ll in a week.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Crashing moonmineral prices is good because the alliances controlling get too fucking rich. When alliances dont even care if they loose a couple of titans and hundreds of dreads and carriers over a weekend because they can replace them in the time it takes for the clonescreen to load for the people who just got podded balance is out of whack badly. Yes I´m overstating it but I remember reading about a PL op a bit back when they lost 2 complete fleets of dreads in a single night and the major problem of that was that their other ships was not in range so they could get back in the fight quickly enough it means that losses doesnt matter one iota anymore. PvPtards often claim that Eve is a cold hard place or similar shit. Start living by that rule then instead of just forcing on miners in their hulks or other carebears. Losses should matter otherwise TF2 is that way.

Besides with a stangnant amount of moongoo and an increasing subscriber base well....supply and demand and CCP have stated that they arent happy with that.

PL tends to keep several cap fleets ready to go at all times in different areas.  It's not that it doesn't hurt, it's that they're ready for the losses and have backups available.  Someone still has to spend <#> days or weeks building new ships for someone else to purchase.  Losing a whole capfleet doesn't happen all that often, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with being prepared for when it does.  They just won't have one of those reserve fleets until the new ships are purchased and built.

The only people I know of who have lost a bunch of titans was BoB/Kenzoku, and you should ask the people Molle took the replacements from if it hurt or not.  We only lost Deadtear's, and he was a dick to people, and hardly used the thing (the first in GS), so he was the only one who really missed it.  He still doesn't have another one, actually.

In the case of GoonSwarm, the alliance doesn't necessarily keep backup fleets, but the people in the alliance who build and sell the ships (and receive the subsidy payments from the alliance), tend to keep at least some sort of stock, so when people lose them, like yesterday we lost some, they can either use their personal funds+insurance to buy one immediately (except the really rich fuckers who have a bunch of personal caps), and get the reimbursement later, or if they can't afford it they wait for the reimbursement payment (+insurance+personal funds) to get a new one and hope there are still some in stock.

I do know for a fact that even though GS has always liked to throw around cap fleets because it's fun, we/they/CapSwarm weren't always in a position to really be able to afford massive losses, because we didn't really have enough money, on the alliance, corp, and individual scale.  Yeah, even when we owned...what...five? six?  seven? regions?  Delve is at least as good as all of those combined, both for the alliance (more moons), and for members (Blood Raiders are "Easy" rats).  Those regions are split now between several of the "big" alliances (XIX, RA, Atlas, AAA, Rol are the ones I can think of off the top of my head..there's a static complex in RoL space though...the whole reason that part of the war started, actually) that are supposedly super loaded.  PL only splits Fountain with Sons of Tangra.   

And that brings me another thing....why the hell should alliances be punished for making things better for their members?  I'm really not following the reasoning behind this.  An individual in an NPC corp or shitty small alliance, who doesn't have a bunch of money is hurt more when he loses his ship than a guy who is in an alliance that has taken, possibly with second guys time and help, some R64's, with which they make things better and more fun for their members by providing reimbursements for ships lost in battles for the alliance or subsidies for new ships that will help the alliance in the future.   So what?

Hopefully CCP won't do anything retarded that makes people have even less fun and play even less. 

"Sorry guys...you weren't having to rat and mine for enough hours after you lost your ships, so we went ahead and fixed that because some highsec people were pissed about that.  No, it doesn't matter that you have to go to highsec to efficiently make your money in the first place."

That's ridiculous.  Moon income is one of the ways the alliances that don't have an aluminum tycoon make the game fun for their members.  It's a perk that comes with being a member of one of those big powerful alliances.  If they get rid of that, there absolutely has to be something to replace it to make things worthwhile.  Otherwise, what's the point?  Everyone can just be in shitty little alliances that can't afford to do anything except small gang PvP.  I'll tell you...that sounds awesome compared to having the option of joining a bigass powerbloc and losing your Revelation in a badass balls out hotdrop on a hostile fleet defending a CSAA that is coming out of reinforced in 15 minutes.  Twice.  And then you can get drunk and go fight HAC gangs with T1 cruisers and frigates. 

And I know moonmining isnt free but it has a profitmargin of selling cocaine in RL and thats just not good. Its just been a required game mechanic since 0.0 is too damn poor outside moons. And yes it takes some efforts but compared to mining its negliable.

Compared to mining, running a reaction chain takes negligible effort?  What?  What on earth are you doing when you're mining?  All I do (or did ha) for logistics is set the things up, which was stupid and sucked by the way, but I know for a fact the guys who were running the POSes were around and busy a lot more than your average miner.  And there's simply nothing to compare to actually having to defend the things (when they're reinforced, they're not mining, just burning fuel).

And no, not all moon mining is profitable just on it's own. 

Its not like this game is the same as 4 years ago. Transporting stuff is hardly that much of an effort now. There is a reason why soo many complain over that space has gotten so small. You can get from one end to the other pretty quick these days.

Better hope no one is sitting on those cyno beacons when you're moving your billions of "moongoo" in that 5 billion isk jump freighter or 1.5 billion isk Rorqual (carriers have been nerfed so they're no longer "logistics" ships).  The other option is to send a cyno alt to light cynos for you, for a mere $15/250m isk a month, or to pay some guy to do it for you.  Or if you decide to take a regular freighter LOL good luck if you don't have titan bridges and an escort fleet. 

SERIOUS BUSINESS CECIL!

And with those words I´m off to some sun and nice food. See ya´ll in a week.

  Have fun mang.