Quo Vadis, Democrats?

[crazy canuck]

OK, let me rephrase to those who would downplay the intentional killing of civilians by a military funded by the United States.

[Valmy]

I see that this thread is sadly diving back into the same hole that was Israel war thread...with the same persons and their same arguments that all fly past each other. 

Actually you know what this reminds me of? Those endless Hortlund threads we used to have. Man those things were endless grinds that went nowhere.

I'm not sure which is the more evil act. Denying that civilian being killed by a military, or mocking those who draw attention to the fact that civilians are being killed unlawfully.

It's particularly concerning since the citizens of the country who is funding the military doing the killing thinks that it's something that shouldn't be discussed and are the ones ridiculing.

I just want all funding and support from the United States to be withdrawn from Israel because they are killing civilians. And there seems to be no goal except eliminating those civilian populations Balkan style.

I am not addressing the substance of the discussion only remarking on how it is taking place. It wasn't like we weren't discussing important issues in those Hortlund threads either.

[crazy canuck]

I see that this thread is sadly diving back into the same hole that was Israel war thread...with the same persons and their same arguments that all fly past each other. 

Actually you know what this reminds me of? Those endless Hortlund threads we used to have. Man those things were endless grinds that went nowhere.

I'm not sure which is the more evil act. Denying that civilian being killed by a military, or mocking those who draw attention to the fact that civilians are being killed unlawfully.

It's particularly concerning since the citizens of the country who is funding the military doing the killing thinks that it's something that shouldn't be discussed and are the ones ridiculing.

I just want all funding and support from the United States to be withdrawn from Israel because they are killing civilians. And there seems to be no goal except eliminating those civilian populations Balkan style.

I am not addressing the substance of the discussion only remarking on how it is taking place. It wasn't like we weren't discussing important issues in those Hortlund threads either.

 

[Razgovory]

OK, let me rephrase to those who would downplay the intentional killing of civilians by a military funded by the United States.

Honest question:  Does this apply to all militaries funded by the United States, all those who would downplay the intentional killing of civilians, or just in this case?

[Razgovory]

I just want all funding and support from the United States to be withdrawn from Israel because they are killing civilians. And there seems to be no goal except eliminating those civilian populations Balkan style.

I am not addressing the substance of the discussion only remarking on how it is taking place. It wasn't like we weren't discussing important issues in those Hortlund threads either.

Why do you suppose the Israelis haven't actually gotten near eliminating the civilian population if that is was their intent?

[crazy canuck]

OK, let me rephrase to those who would downplay the intentional killing of civilians by a military funded by the United States.

Honest question:  Does this apply to all militaries funded by the United States, all those who would downplay the intentional killing of civilians, or just in this case?

I'm not sure that's an honest question. But the answer is any military that intentionally targets civilians.  In other words, any military that commits war crimes.

[crazy canuck]

I just want all funding and support from the United States to be withdrawn from Israel because they are killing civilians. And there seems to be no goal except eliminating those civilian populations Balkan style.

I am not addressing the substance of the discussion only remarking on how it is taking place. It wasn't like we weren't discussing important issues in those Hortlund threads either.

Why do you suppose the Israelis haven't actually gotten near eliminating the civilian population if that is was their intent?

Raz, you understand that there were Jews who survived the holocaust. You're not denying there was a holocaust are you?

To use your logic, why do you suppose the Germans didn't get near eliminating the Jewish population if that was their intent.  Are you beginning to see the weaknesses in your worldview?

[Razgovory]

I just want all funding and support from the United States to be withdrawn from Israel because they are killing civilians. And there seems to be no goal except eliminating those civilian populations Balkan style.

I am not addressing the substance of the discussion only remarking on how it is taking place. It wasn't like we weren't discussing important issues in those Hortlund threads either.

Why do you suppose the Israelis haven't actually gotten near eliminating the civilian population if that is was their intent?

Raz, you understand that there were Jews who survived the holocaust. You're not denying there was a holocaust are you?

To use your logic, why do you suppose the Germans didn't get near eliminating the Jewish population if that was their intent.  Are you beginning to see the weaknesses in your worldview?

The Germans got very near eliminating the Jewish population in the areas they controlled.  In Poland 90% of the Jewish population was eliminated.  In Rwanda, about 80% of the Tutsi population was eliminated over the course of a few months.  Gaza about 3% of the population is dead, though this includes natural deaths, deaths of resistance fighters, and people killed by resistance.  The rate of population growth is about 2% per year in Gaza, so in a few years it's likely the population will have increased.

So, let me ask the question again:  If the intent is to kill the the civilian population why haven't gotten anywhere near it?  Why are they being outpaced by mobs using machetes?

[crazy canuck]

Goodbye Raz, I have spent enough time around the fringes of your cesspool

[Razgovory]

Goodbye Raz, I have spent enough time around the fringes of your cesspool

I didn't think you had an answer to that.  Because the Pro-Pal movement never does.  The Genocide is Gaza is never about what actually happens on the ground, but what people who hate Israel feel is happening.  It doesn't matter what the Israelis do or how many Palestinians die.  It could be 0 or it could be a million.  It's genocide because it's the worst crime imaginable and the existence of the state of Israel is the worst crime imaginable.  You have nothing, nothing beyond your indignations.  So you bowed out.

[Zoupa]

I see that this thread is sadly diving back into the same hole that was Israel war thread...with the same persons and their same arguments that all fly past each other. 

I'll be gone soon enough and everyone can go back to ignoring inconvenient racism on their side.

Don't threaten us with a good time.

[Valmy]

I am not able to ignore shit Raz. The Antisemites are all over the internet, they speak for themselves just fine. The days of being able to ignore racism and sexism are long gone, they are pretty much in your face.

But that doesn't make it so I can't also see Israel is basically just Serbia now and Netanyahu is basically just Milosevic. I have no idea why you want to go to bat for a government like that.

[Razgovory]

I see that this thread is sadly diving back into the same hole that was Israel war thread...with the same persons and their same arguments that all fly past each other. 

I'll be gone soon enough and everyone can go back to ignoring inconvenient racism on their side.

Don't threaten us with a good time.

When I get around to offing myself, I'll livestream it here and you can have a the time of your life.

[Razgovory]

I am not able to ignore shit Raz. The Antisemites are all over the internet, they speak for themselves just fine. The days of being able to ignore racism and sexism are long gone, they are pretty much in your face.

But that doesn't make it so I can't also see Israel is basically just Serbia now and Netanyahu is basically just Milosevic. I have no idea why you want to go to bat for a government like that.

Except it isn't Serbia, and you are allying with the antisemites.

I think a useful thing to remember is that it is well within Israel's capability to kill or drive off every Palestinian, but they don't.  On the other hand the Palestinian resistance would love nothing more than to kill or drive off every Jew in Israel, but they can't.  That is the difference between the two sides.

It is this fact that CC can't stand for.  The conflict between the propaganda and the reality.  What he wants to believe is going on, and what has actually happened.  What has occurred is a war, and wars are nasty, messy things.  It has been bloody war with the Palestinian resistance, and many civilians have died, but this isn't because the Israelis are ineffectually exterminating them.  It's because it is a small densely populated area.  It's because the Resistance will not put it's weapon's down when they are beaten to save their own children, because they don't have the basic human decency that the Confederates and the Nazis displayed.  And finally, and certainly not least, because dead kids are an advantage to them.  Expending children as shields or soldiers gains them valuable political capital.  And they wouldn't be so happy to expend those children if people in the West weren't so keen to grant them said political capital.  Yes, people who so richly reward the Palestinian resistance for offering up their own children to bombs share some of the blame.  You can't incentivize the sacrifice of children and not share some responsibility.  

What the Israelis do is what have done.  Not just America, but France, and Britain and the UK.  And we will do it again someday.  And if the enemy is threatening enough, or ideologically disagreeable enough, you will tolerate it.  Just as tolerated the the dead kids in the war against ISIS.