Quo Vadis, Democrats?

[The Minsky Moment]

Where are we going to find another guy with a Nazi tattoo on such short notice?

That's easy to find, however I don't think the Maine nominating convention is going to select from the leadership of the Young Republicans.

[The Minsky Moment]

Fair but there'll be people working the room, organising that etc. Even before the primary era in peak smoke-filled room times (that gave us FDR, LBJ, Kennedy v Carter, two Clintons etc - maybe you should go back? ) conventions had huge numbers of delegates and people organising them.

Primary voting played a decisive role in Kennedy's nomination.  Conventions did not select LBJ (Oswald did) and then in 64 he ran as an unchallenged incumbent.  Even in 32 primary voting was sort of important; Al Smith went to the voters to challenge FDR's planned coronation but got crushed.  The matter was decided long before the convention convened.

[Sheilbh]

Okay fine Although in many of those cases primaries were indicative and relatively rare - and seem to me to more play the role polling does now (or, arguably, Obama winning the Iowa caucus) as a signal to party elites informing their decision making rather than being decisive themselves. And actually the best convention moment I know of is 1948 on civil rights when it's not back room dealing but Humphrey's speech then leading to a floor fight with the Minnesota delegates picking up their banner and leading the march.

[Valmy]

The last true smoke filled room the Democrats had to pick their candidate was the hilariously disastrous 1924 Convention 

Probably the lowest point for the Democrats since they nominated a Republican for President in 1872.

[Razgovory]

Mr. Plattner is now facing rape accusations.  If only there was some sort of red flag, or sign that this might be happen.

Right? What an absolute shit show that is. The Blackwater work was a red flag. The Totenkopf was a huge red flag. The creepy sexting was a red flag. The total lack of prior grassroots efforts was a red flag. The earlier accusations were a red flag. The guy who started his campaign was a red flag. Yet he still had a ton of support and it was growing. You and I don't agree often politically, but I am fully onboard and have been for Platner to disappear.

edit: Actually, we probably agree on a lot politically. Just not your top issue.

Honestly, I don't know where I stand politically anymore.  I've sorta fallen out with the left when they decided to make common cause the Jihadis and the Neo-Nazis.  I don't have quite enough privilege to champion people who would kill me if they could.  

[Josquius]

e author=Sophie Sch]

Honestly, I don't know where I stand politically anymore.  I've sorta fallen out with the left when they decided to make common cause the Jihadis and the Neo-Nazis.  I don't have quite enough privilege to champion people who would kill me if they could. 

I get how the common cause with Islamic extremists thing comes about but Neo Nazis? :/

[Razgovory]

e author=Sophie Sch]

Honestly, I don't know where I stand politically anymore.  I've sorta fallen out with the left when they decided to make common cause the Jihadis and the Neo-Nazis.  I don't have quite enough privilege to champion people who would kill me if they could. 

I get how the common cause with Islamic extremists thing comes about but Neo Nazis? :/

They aren't so keen on Israelis either.  In fact, that's one of their main issues.  There's probably a connection between the totenkopf tattoo and the antizionists rhetoric.

Hell, if the Jihadis were white and Christian, and said the same things, you'd have no problem calling them Neo-Nazis.  This is not lost on the disciples of Reich; David Duke was invited to give a lecture on "Zionism" in Syria 2002.  He had plenty of nice things to say about the Arabs there.

[crazy canuck]

Not keen on Israeli armed forces committing war crimes is now a characteristic of being a neo nazi?

I thought you were making the generalization based on Platner's tattoo

[Josquius]

e author=Sophie Sch]

Honestly, I don't know where I stand politically anymore.  I've sorta fallen out with the left when they decided to make common cause the Jihadis and the Neo-Nazis.  I don't have quite enough privilege to champion people who would kill me if they could. 

I get how the common cause with Islamic extremists thing comes about but Neo Nazis? :/

They aren't so keen on Israelis either.  In fact, that's one of their main issues.  There's probably a connection between the totenkopf tattoo and the antizionists rhetoric.

Hell, if the Jihadis were white and Christian, and said the same things, you'd have no problem calling them Neo-Nazis.  This is not lost on the disciples of Reich; David Duke was invited to give a lecture on "Zionism" in Syria 2002.  He had plenty of nice things to say about the Arabs there.

Err. I'm always saying the white far right and Islamic far right are basically the same thing. Just like different football teams hooligan firms.

I think you might be confusing nazis and neo nazis here though. The modern white far right love Israel.

[Razgovory]

I think you use different definitions for words than I do.  For instance, when I say "Neo-Nazi" I'm talking about people who revere Hitler, hate Jews.  That sort of thing.  They are of course, very anti-Israel.  You seem think it is people who are unhappy with large numbers of undocumented immigrants.  The far-right isn't as nearly as pro-Israel as you would like them to be.  The most popular figures in the end of the spectrum, guys like Nick Fuentes, Canance Owens and Tucker Carlson are quite anti-Israel.  Sadly, the left, at least in this country, is moving closer to accepting these people.  They are allies on the antizionist movement, just as the Jihadis are.  It's not so much left-vs-right but all sides against the center.

[Josquius]

You're simply wrong. It has been drifting that way for a while but since Israels recent embracing of full on shit headery they have really been whole heartedly embraced by the far right.
This is very well reported.

It's absolutely not right and left vs the centre and Israel, it's left and centre vs right and "Israel"

Maybe you're being pedantic and technical with neo nazi and only counting the 10 men in a pub organisations that actually call themselves nazis and openly love Hitler, rather than the actual organisations with direct fascist lineage and who are a political force.
But those groups are even less worth noting than the various people's front of judea nuts. Much of their power has been subsumed by the fascist take over of much of the mainstream right.

[Razgovory]

No Josq.  Nazis (and neo-Nazis) are very much people who hate Jews.  You are just defining it in a way that means something other than what the word means.  It doesn't mean people who aren't happy with immigration.  You seem to be doing the same thing as Orwell talked about when he pointed out that fascism is now simply something that is undesirable.   And much of the right has turned on Israel.  Some of the most influential voices on the American far-right are very much anti-Israel.  

Far-right people like Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson are very anti-Israel.  This is not fringe, it has become mainstream.  And. They. Are. On. Your. Side.  I understand you don't want to admit to it, but it is true.