Quo Vadis, Democrats?

[DGuller]

I think showing right wing incompetence is a better way to win voters (or make the other side lose voters) than trying to show the merits of complex policy proposals.

I think giving people reasons to vote for you generally works much better than giving reasons to not vote for your opponent, even if objectively we live in the times where by far the most important reason to vote for Democrats is to not have GOP in power.

[Sheilbh]

I think it depends on the spin that sticks. I fear it will be that the Dems refused to play ball as though it is required of them to acquiesce to Republican plans.

I think that's more of a thing in periods of divided government (and Democrats have been pretty good at that spin). I think when the Republicans control the House, Senate and White House it's hard to blame anyone else for a shutdown.

[HVC]

I think it depends on the spin that sticks. I fear it will be that the Dems refused to play ball as though it is required of them to acquiesce to Republican plans.

I think that's more of a thing in periods of divided government (and Democrats have been pretty good at that spin). I think when the Republicans control the House, Senate and White House it's hard to blame anyone else for a shutdown.

You severely overestimate the voting public. 

[The Brain]

One problem with tactical retreats is that eventually you will have performed a strategic withdrawal.

[Valmy]

I think it depends on the spin that sticks. I fear it will be that the Dems refused to play ball as though it is required of them to acquiesce to Republican plans.

I think that's more of a thing in periods of divided government (and Democrats have been pretty good at that spin). I think when the Republicans control the House, Senate and White House it's hard to blame anyone else for a shutdown.

All the media I have seen is calling for the Democrats to prevent the shutdown. It is wild.

[Zanza]

I think showing right wing incompetence is a better way to win voters (or make the other side lose voters) than trying to show the merits of complex policy proposals.

How's that working out for the Democrats?

They haven't tried so far, no? In March they gave in for no reason. Could have nuked Trump's presidency right then.

[Zanza]

I think showing right wing incompetence is a better way to win voters (or make the other side lose voters) than trying to show the merits of complex policy proposals.

It's cute that you still think American elections are one and lost based on who is competent

Well, obviously Americans do not vote for competence, see last election. But showing that Trump cannot reign in his own party would damage him more than any policy proposals or even real legislative achievements could.

[Zanza]

Trump's fans vote for him because he has an aura of being powerful, successful and in charge. Show that he isn't by not helping him to pass a budget.

Just point out that his party has a majority and be done with it. You live in a tribal system, a zero sum game. A win for red is a loss for blue. There is no bipartisanship anymore. The Republicans understand that (as they created it) and would be super disciplined in the opposite situation.

[HVC]

But how much more can the dems show that the GOP is incompetent than the GOP is themselves showing? And the voter still don't care. Hell, we have people here who I would argue are above average intelligence and the still blame the left for the issues caused by the right.

[garbon]

I think it depends on the spin that sticks. I fear it will be that the Dems refused to play ball as though it is required of them to acquiesce to Republican plans.

I think that's more of a thing in periods of divided government (and Democrats have been pretty good at that spin). I think when the Republicans control the House, Senate and White House it's hard to blame anyone else for a shutdown.

All the media I have seen is calling for the Democrats to prevent the shutdown. It is wild.

[Tonitrus]

I am very sympathetic to the messaging of "the GOP has the majority...sucks for them if they cannot pass their garbage without any of our votes".

That being said, a shutdown will be destructive in many ways, and cathartic as it might be to allow that to happen, it is a kind of "scorched earth" strategy.  Sure, they may think the current administration sucks...but a shutdown will not make it suck less.  And unless the strategy is to hold out forever, the inevitable outcome is to give in.  They may get some concessions...but there will be a lot of damage done before then.

In a case like this though, I am a little less sympathetic to cheering from those outside the US saying "yeah!  Trump sucks, shut it down!"...but wondering if your governments even have a similar mechanism/failure (that being our constant cycling of continuing resolutions/budget-passing failures) that would wreck the government's day-to-day operations.  

[Zoupa]

The republicans have not made ANY compromise or even discussions about the budget. They magically expect 7 Dem Senators to just rubber stamp their shit. It's kinda wild.

[Zanza]

The Republican offer seems to be "we will dismantle the constitution and institutions a bit slower if you pass the budget". Does not seem a worthy offer.

But as Tonitrus said, I am a foreigner so I have only fairly limited stakes in this.

[Zanza]

All the media I have seen is calling for the Democrats to prevent the shutdown. It is wild.

The American "free press" seems to be exclusively owned by right-wing billionaires, so it may not reflect the full spectrum of opinions.

[garbon]

I am very sympathetic to the messaging of "the GOP has the majority...sucks for them if they cannot pass their garbage without any of our votes".

That being said, a shutdown will be destructive in many ways, and cathartic as it might be to allow that to happen, it is a kind of "scorched earth" strategy.  Sure, they may think the current administration sucks...but a shutdown will not make it suck less.  And unless the strategy is to hold out forever, the inevitable outcome is to give in.  They may get some concessions...but there will be a lot of damage done before then.

In a case like this though, I am a little less sympathetic to cheering from those outside the US saying "yeah!  Trump sucks, shut it down!"...but wondering if your governments even have a similar mechanism/failure (that being our constant cycling of continuing resolutions/budget-passing failures) that would wreck the government's day-to-day operations. 

Unlike say the damage the American people asked for when they elected Trump again? What is the point of Dem leadership if they become participants?