Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Duque de Bragança]

So if get it right France is having to send 7000 soldiers to patrol cities because there has been not only that stabbing in that school but threats against the Louvre as well.

Bomb threats against the Louvre and the Versailles Castle are probably linked to the war, yes.

Because of a bloody middle east crisis is making radical Muslims there uppity. Ludicrous and kind of scary.

The stabbing of a teacher is the second by a radicalised North Caucasian "refugee" an Ingushetian (bordering Chechnya), North Caucasian radical islamist, so not necessarily linked to the Hamas-Israel think of Samuel Paty. It's islamism at work. He shouted Allahu akbar and wanted to kill a teacher.
More of a mismanaged immigration issue though, even as per Le Monde:

You can share an article by clicking on the share icons at the top right of it.
The total or partial reproduction of an article, without the prior written authorization of Le Monde, is strictly forbidden.
For more information, see our Terms and Conditions.
For all authorization requests, contact [email protected].

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/10/14/who-is-mohammed-m-the-man-who-carried-out-a-knife-attack-at-a-school-in-arras_6171906_7.html

Mohammed M. was born in Ingushetia in 2003, a Russian province next to Chechnya, and arrived in France in 2008 with his brothers and parents. The Salafist family first settled in Brittany, in the village of La-Guerche-de-Bretagne, south of Rennes. The children went to school, and they applied for asylum. However, the local prefecture refused to grant the father, Yacoub M., political refugee status.
According to news articles and press releases at the time, on February 18, 2014, border police officers turned up at the hostel where they were staying, questioned them and took them to the Paris Charles-de-Gaulle airport to be sent back to Russia. However, this attempted deportation generated an outcry from local organizations defending undocumented migrants. Activists even briefly occupied the Rennes school inspectorate. In extremis, while on the tarmac waiting to take off, the family was taken off the return flight and released from detention. The father fled to Belgium, where he was arrested and put on a plane to Russia in 2018.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/10/14/who-is-mohammed-m-the-man-who-carried-out-a-knife-attack-at-a-school-in-arras_6171906_7.html

As for trouble in Palestine/Israel causing trouble over here, it's hardly news, not the first time, nor the last one.

[HVC]

2. Most western countries require you to pledge to respect the laws and values of their society when you naturalize. By advocating genocide you demonstrate that you lied during your pledge.

Call for mass persecution of citizenry through new laws also seems against western values, to me, off to jail for you too?

[Legbiter]

If that story is true most gazans will be dead in 5 to 6 days. If they're not we'll know the story was false.

Presumably a bunch of them will drink dirty and untreated water from wells (like the story says), with the health consequences that entails.

If it's not boiled they're dead. We'll know in a few days.

[Grey Fox]

Senator Graham, on meet the press, said this morning that Israel has agreed to turn the water back on.

[Jacob]

Abbas has said that Hamas' actions do not represent Palestinians.

[fromtia]

Call for mass persecution of citizenry through new laws also seems against western values, to me, off to jail for you too?

You, straight to jail. Undermining national morale.

[Razgovory]

I think jailing people for this sort of speech might go a little to far.

[mongers]

Gorshon Baskin, the last Israeli to successfully negotiate a prisoner/hostage swap with Hamas has said in an interview, he sees a small chance of a hostage exchange, but that it would only involve women, children, ill and old Israeli hostages in return for the 45 Palestinian women and 170 minors in Israeli prisons.

But he saw no likelihood of the men being released in such an exchange and acknowledged the radically different environment that now exists in the region.
The nature of his communications with Hamas were characterised as informal, but established.

So I guess there's a very small chance we'll have some good news, before the Israeli land assault begins

[OttoVonBismarck]

Qatar and a few other bad actors in the region have apparently been pressuring Hamas to release women / elderly / children, I think some of Hamas' savvier backers understand the PR value of holding those hostages is massively negative, to no strategic / tactical benefit of note.

Whether we will actually see any of them released is of course hard to know, I wouldn't feel great about the odds.

[viper37]

By your example, if a Stasi agent had killed civilians in West Berlin, NATO should have flattened East Berlin.

Are we talking about the same thing?  I suggested a three state solution.  Make permanent peace with the PA in the West Bank.  Continue a policy of containment with Gaza and Hamas.

It ain't a viable solution so far as it's the same nation.  You can't create two Palestinian state with two different status for its citizens.

Besides, Israel would never accept to surrender territory in the West Bank.  It wasn't acceptable in 1993 nor in 2000, it won't be in 2023 when there's almost nothing left for Palestinians.  And Palestinians would never accept a state with isolated pockets here and there. Who would, really?  It's like the 13 colonies sitting at a table with England in 1778 and England partitioning all the colonies to give pieces of the territory to the newly formed US and keep the rest as colonies.

Surrendering territory in Gaza by Sharon created a trauma for the right wing parties that they would never want to repeat, and no liberal party can govern right now without the help of a right wing secular or religious party.

[viper37]

By your example, if a Stasi agent had killed civilians in West Berlin, NATO should have flattened East Berlin.

A more apt analogy would be an armed incursion that had killed or kidnapped 5 to 10 thousand people.

And you bet your ass that would have resulted in WW3.

There were 700 people killed in one day, and they died because Netanyahu considered them expendable, compared to the right wing settlers who elected him.  The Egyptian government warned the Israeli government of something big happening and the answer was that the IDF was otherwise engaged in the West Bank.  The CIA also warned the Israelis about the Hamas preparing something big and that was not important enough.  The Shin Bet warned the Netanyahu govt of its policies creating resentment and increasing the risk of a terrorist attack from the Hamas but 
they chose to dismmiss it.

It is not the first time either they were warned about their idiotic policies.
Shin bet chief warns on dangers of PA collapse resulting in violence

Warning of clear and immediate danger ex Shin Bet agents urge overhaul be shelved



For your analogy to be correct, it would have meant for all NATO troops to be absent from West Berlin and for the BND to ignore all prior intelligence given by other agencies warning of an impending attack.

[Admiral Yi]

It ain't a viable solution so far as it's the same nation.  You can't create two Palestinian state with two different status for its citizens.

Koreans have two states.  Chinese have two states.  The Irish have two states.  Germans used to have two states.  Before that they had dozens.  So did Italians.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Germans still have 2 States, maybe even 2.5 if you count Switzerland as a partial.

[Razgovory]

Arabs have like a dozen.  What's two more?

[viper37]

Is this a language problem?  You keep saying I say something that I didn't say.  I didn't say that they deserved it, it's something that happened because of a war.  If the war had gone another way there would have been a second holocaust.  Millions of Germans were displaced a few years earlier and nobody is to bent out of shape about that.  Hell, 14 million people were displace with the creation of India and Pakistan.  It was a rough time.

Do you think Israel has the right to exist?  Does it have the right to defend itself?

I'm not aware of any Germans living in temporary refugee camps since 1945 and being disallowed to return to Germany.  Can you enlighten me on this part of history?

As for the second Holocaust, it is doubtful.  Given that the only massacre to occur in the war were perpetrated by Jews against Arab civilians, which prompted other Arabs to flee, it's hard to understand this fear.  The war begun after Jewish militants assassinated Palestinians, and Palestinians reciprocated in killing Jewish civilians.  Not the first time, nor the last it would happen in this territory.

Jews might have been expelled from Palestine though.  But like you said, it's ok for the victors to displace people they don't like, so no big deal here.  Who cares about a couple million refugees?  I'm sure Europe, US and Canada would have found some room for them at the time.

And I'd like to also remind you that neither side agreed with the UN partition plan.  Both the Jews of the British Mandate and the Arab nations rejected it.  You can pin the blame on the Arabs as much as you want, but both are guilty here.