Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Grey Fox]

2 things can be true.

[Razgovory]

You didn't know the far-left was anti-war in 1939-1941?   Last night I was reading about Dalton Trumbo, a Hollywood writer and committed communist.  He had written a book praising the Nazi-Soviet pact, and was anti-war right up until June 1941.  He later won an academy award, there was a movie about him a few years back.  The far left was antiwar because the Soviets were allied with the Nazis.  The far left were anti Israel because the Soviets were.  The Soviets were for two reasons: The Israelis maintained connections to the US and Stalin wasn't keen on Jews.

I posted an article where about Settler-Colonialiasm where the author pointed out the rhetoric of Palestinians and the Walther Darre were basically the same.

Until recently, Palestinian leaders preferred to avoid the language of indigeneity, seeing the implicit comparison between themselves and Native Americans as defeatist. In an interview near the end of his life, in 2004, PLO Chair Yasser Arafat declared, "We are not Red Indians." But today's activists are more eager to embrace the Indigenous label and the moral valences that go with it, and some theorists have begun to recast Palestinian identity in ecological, spiritual, and aesthetic terms long associated with Native American identity. The American academic Steven Salaita has written that "Palestinian claims to life" are based in having "a culture indivisible from their surroundings, a language of freedom concordant to the beauty of the land." Jamal Nabulsi of the University of Queensland writes that "Palestinian Indigenous sovereignty is in and of the land. It is grounded in an embodied connection to Palestine and articulated in Palestinian ways of being, knowing, and resisting on and for this land."

This kind of language points to an aspect of the concept of indigeneity that is often tacitly overlooked in the Native American context: its irrationalism. The idea that different peoples have incommensurable ways of being and knowing, rooted in their relationship to a particular landscape, comes out of German Romantic nationalism. Originating in the early 19th century in the work of philosophers such as Johann Gottlieb Fichte and Johann Gottfried Herder, it eventually degenerated into the blood-�and-�soil nationalism of Nazi ideologues such as Richard Walther Darré, who in 1930 hymned what might be called an embodied connection to Germany: "The German soul, with all its warmness, is rooted in its native landscape and has, in a sense, always grown out of it ... Whoever takes the natural landscape away from the German soul, kills it."


For Darré, this rootedness in the land meant that Germans could never thrive in cities, among the "rootless ways of thinking of the urbanite." The rootless urbanite par excellence, for Nazi ideology, was of course the Jew. For Salaita, the exaltation of Palestinian indigeneity leads to the very same conclusion about "Zionists," who usurp the land but can never be vitally rooted in it: "In their ruthless schema, land is neither pleasure nor sustenance. It is a commodity ... Having been anointed Jewish, the land ceases to be dynamic. It is an ideological fabrication with fixed characteristics."

In other words, Blood and soil with different aesthetics.

The Soviets were anti-Zionist except from a brief period in the 1940's. Stalin thought that supporting the Zionists would weaken the British.  After 1948, they were no longer useful and Stalin when anti-Zionist and began the mass murder of Jews.  That's your heel turn.

Zionism was racism because Jews were innately racist.  Their holy book said they were the chosen people, so it was right to oppress them in the Soviet Union or destroy them abroad.  It didn't matter if the Jews were actually religious, Jews were racist.

"If we searched the entire world for a person, more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli."

-Nasrallah guy who runs Hezbollah

What a beautiful articulation of self-determination!  As a left-winger I would be proud to align myself with this left-wing group!

[Razgovory]

2 things can be true.

And they are!

[Josquius]

I'm done. Raz's nonsense ceased being fun to poke holes in a while ago. Suffice to say another massively ignorant post seeped in far right rhetoric.

The idea that the left was anti war when they were the main ones who really hated the nazis and wanted to fight them to the end....
"Pacifism is objectively pro fascist" much?

The WB/Gaza Arabs don't want "self-determination" they want to live under the rule of a terror state ala the Taliban and kill every Jew in the levant. You're fucking nuts if you think they want self-determination, they want to kill the Jews.

You're clearly the nuts one here to believe this.
The support for killing Israelis derives from the Israeli oppression. It's not something they support just for kicks.

[Razgovory]

Well, I've learned a lot.  The idea that Soviets were murdered Jews is far-right, though Stalin himself may have been a right winger.  Being left or right, good or bad is not matter of what you think and do but you status as a marginalized person.  The Palestinians are left wing and good because they lost their war in 1948 and Israelis are right-wing and bad because they won.  This does make sense, though it is morally abhorrent.  The world is made up of the oppressed and the oppressor.  The oppressed is left wing and virtuous, the Oppressor is right-wing and wicked.