Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

[Solmyr]

Or, perhaps: STFU about these topics, which have been defined by Republicans for years, and talk about other things.

Won't work - because you'll always have your AOCs (and if not elected politicians, then your activist base) talking about these topics.  And as a response you'll have the GOP trying to tie all Dems to what the fringiest parts of the left are saying.

And GOP voters will fall for it every time. Remind me again, why was it wrong to call them backward dim-witted folks?

You call them what you want.

But it's counter-productive for Dem politicians to think of them that way because they're trying to get these people to vote for them.

In what universe are these people ever going to vote for the Dems? These are people who depend on Obamacare but hate Obama and want to overturn... Obamacare.

[Admiral Yi]

I think what he's saying is, if free money is being handed out, most people want their cut.

[crazy canuck]

Like Barrister said, encourage contraception.  That makes it rarer.

Yeah, planned parenthood right.  That is the answer conservatives always give.  And then they go to no sex.  The thing that goes hand in hand is limiting access to abortion.

By the way, contraception education has been in place for many decades.

If that is the answer, what more would you do to make abortions rare?

[Sheilbh]

I'm not sure it is though - contraception is part of it (including the morning after pill), so is sex education and so is a welfare state.

If contraception is available and affordable, people are educated about sex and what help is available and there's a social support systems that allows an actual choice.

My understanding is that the US has more abortions than Canada, or most Western European countries. It feels like that's either because those countries are more restrictive than the US, which I don't think is correct, or because those countries' attitudes to contraception, education and welfare mean there are fewer abortions. But I don't think Canada and Western Europe are limiting access - they have different conditions.

[crazy canuck]

I think you've hit upon an important factor. Contraception education is all well and good, but what about the cost of actually obtaining of the contraception. It's one of the dangers of the mantra that abortions should be rare. The conservatives who spout the mantra are the very same people who talk about small government.  They were very happy to make broad statements about whether women should rarely have an abortion without putting other supports in place so that women rarely are in the position of having an unwanted pregnancy.

The mantra of rare abortions alone, simply leads to the logic of reduced access to make it rare.

It's interesting that you rarely hear a conservative say unwanted pregnancies should be rare. That of course is the real answer to making abortions rare. But that cuts across a difficult religious question for the right.

[Grey Fox]

BB is only using a classic right tactic of keeping the insane position right and a sensible yet discriminatory position center all in an effort to keep the Overton window in the right. Its a downright Putinesque strategy.


Raz was posting it in jest but I do think the USA left should constantly call the GOP for all it's insane positions. In some circles, it's what is happening but it needs to start reaching mainstream media.

First they go for abortion than it'll be casual sex than it'll be interracial relationships. It is easy to find those positions in GOP circles. Start screaming how backwards that is all the time.

[crazy canuck]

And of course there are religious conservatives who strongly believe there should be no pre-marital sex - which fits in nicely with the mantra that abortions should be rare.  In that world view abortions would essentially become unnecessary.

But I am not sure Raz was not being serious.

[Barrister]

BB is only using a classic right tactic of keeping the insane position right and a sensible yet discriminatory position center all in an effort to keep the Overton window in the right. Its a downright Putinesque strategy.

Fuck off.

[crazy canuck]

BB is only using a classic right tactic of keeping the insane position right and a sensible yet discriminatory position center all in an effort to keep the Overton window in the right. Its a downright Putinesque strategy.

Fuck off.

You are all about tolerance and listening the views of others, except when there is criticism of your views.  Classic right wing move.

[Razgovory]

Like Barrister said, encourage contraception.  That makes it rarer.

Yeah, planned parenthood right.  That is the answer conservatives always give.  And then they go to no sex.  The thing that goes hand in hand is limiting access to abortion.

By the way, contraception education has been in place for many decades.

If that is the answer, what more would you do to make abortions rare?

You've already done it.  They are rare.  Congrats.

[crazy canuck]

You guys don't teach it in your state?

[DGuller]

If we want to keep this forum as a place where we aim to discuss issues, maybe it would be best to not label people Putinesque.  I know it's a big if, previous discussions indicate that some would be perfectly okay with this place becoming a safe place to get validation for one's existing opinions, but I'm just throwing this out there in case there is still some appetite for discussing things across the echo chambers.

[Razgovory]

You guys don't teach it in your state?

I live in Missouri...

[crazy canuck]

Really, commenting on the hypocrisy of the conservative position on abortion is seeking validation within an echo chamber.  Buddy, stop watching Fox.

You guys don't teach it in your state?

I live in Missouri...

   I keep forgetting. 

[Sheilbh]

And of course there are religious conservatives who strongly believe there should be no pre-marital sex - which fits in nicely with the mantra that abortions should be rare.  In that world view abortions would essentially become unnecessary.

But I am not sure Raz was not being serious.

I think those are different entirely.

To make it really clear the examples of Catholic Ireland and Poland did/do not think abortion should be rare - it should be prohibited. They also thought no pre-marital sex and no contraception and, in the case of Ireland, built coercive mechanisms to enforce that. But they were not triangulating their position as Bill Clinton did with "safe, legal and rare" - and I don't think opponents of abortion now are triangulating either.

I'd be astonished if any opponent of Roe right now was saying it should be rare as opposed to it was wrongly decided/bad law (which is the more triangulate-y cover) or just morally wrong. I think you're misplacing where the energy and radicalism is on this issue: "safe, rare and legal" is not the thin end of the wedge for banning abortion, but for legalising it.