Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

[grumbler]

Do you really think that would work?
For the sake of argument the Democrats come out and say fuck the gays, women deserve no rights, etc...
I get the feeling the entrenchment of blue team and red team is so deep that they still wouldn't sway many.

Yes, the only way to appeal to voters in Ohio, Michigan and the like is to say "fuck the gays and women deserve no rights".

What I mean is to run to the CENTER.  You know, where the voters are.

What actual Democratic Party platform policies do you think are alienating the CENTER? 

[Solmyr]

Do you really think that would work?
For the sake of argument the Democrats come out and say fuck the gays, women deserve no rights, etc...
I get the feeling the entrenchment of blue team and red team is so deep that they still wouldn't sway many.

Yes, the only way to appeal to voters in Ohio, Michigan and the like is to say "fuck the gays and women deserve no rights".

What I mean is to run to the CENTER.  You know, where the voters are.

What actual Democratic Party platform policies do you think are alienating the CENTER? 

Beeb thinks the CENTER is just left of fascism.

[Iormlund]

Do you really think that would work?
For the sake of argument the Democrats come out and say fuck the gays, women deserve no rights, etc...
I get the feeling the entrenchment of blue team and red team is so deep that they still wouldn't sway many.

Yes, the only way to appeal to voters in Ohio, Michigan and the like is to say "fuck the gays and women deserve no rights".

What I mean is to run to the CENTER.  You know, where the voters are.

The Dems ARE the center. In fact, in any sane country they would be conservatives.

If your only realistic choices are embracing the Alt-Right or (figuratively) burning the SC to the ground, then it's time to get some gas.

Who knows, maybe THAT would galvanize Dem voters. Show them their votes actually get something done.

[Barrister]

Do you really think that would work?
For the sake of argument the Democrats come out and say fuck the gays, women deserve no rights, etc...
I get the feeling the entrenchment of blue team and red team is so deep that they still wouldn't sway many.

Yes, the only way to appeal to voters in Ohio, Michigan and the like is to say "fuck the gays and women deserve no rights".

What I mean is to run to the CENTER.  You know, where the voters are.

What actual Democratic Party platform policies do you think are alienating the CENTER? 

-defund the police
-cancel student debt
-no restrictions on abortion until the moment of birth
-"birthing persons"/Latinx

[crazy canuck]

You are a good little GOPer BB, its a shame you are in the wrong country.

[Razgovory]

Do you really think that would work?
For the sake of argument the Democrats come out and say fuck the gays, women deserve no rights, etc...
I get the feeling the entrenchment of blue team and red team is so deep that they still wouldn't sway many.

Yes, the only way to appeal to voters in Ohio, Michigan and the like is to say "fuck the gays and women deserve no rights".

What I mean is to run to the CENTER.  You know, where the voters are.

What actual Democratic Party platform policies do you think are alienating the CENTER? 

-defund the police
-cancel student debt
-no restrictions on abortion until the moment of birth
-"birthing persons"/Latinx

These aren't Democratic Party platform policies.

[Barrister]

-defund the police
-cancel student debt
-no restrictions on abortion until the moment of birth
-"birthing persons"/Latinx

These aren't Democratic Party platform policies.

Perfect!  Then Democratic politicians should have no problem denouncing these policies.

Oh wait... they don't actually do that.

[Barrister]

I mean I think we've learned that actual policy platforms don't matter.  Perhaps they did at one point, but they don't any longer.

I mean when the 2020 GOP platform was just "we support what Trump supports" and they didn't lose a bit of support we learned that lesson.  It's all about messaging, and the Dems have been piss-poor about messaging.  They all too frequently allow themselves to get defined by the most radical voices within their party because, like I just said, they refuse to stand up against them.

Which alienates the center and somehow makes monstrous MAGAhead candidates apparently seem more palatable to voters.

You can complain all you want, but that's the world you're living in.

[Zoupa]

-defund the police
-cancel student debt
-no restrictions on abortion until the moment of birth
-"birthing persons"/Latinx

These aren't Democratic Party platform policies.

Perfect!  Then Democratic politicians should have no problem denouncing these policies.

Oh wait... they don't actually do that.

Why would the Dems denounce random Tucker Carlson made-up talking points? Not denouncing is not equivalent to endorsement. It could just mean you don't want to engage with the crazies.

[Razgovory]

-defund the police
-cancel student debt
-no restrictions on abortion until the moment of birth
-"birthing persons"/Latinx

These aren't Democratic Party platform policies.

Perfect!  Then Democratic politicians should have no problem denouncing these policies.

Oh wait... they don't actually do that.

They do, well at least the ones that are actual policies.  Except student debt.  The majority support that already.

[Razgovory]

Republicans can make claims faster than Democrats can denounce them.  Besides it starts to look weird if all you do is talk about what you don't want to do.  The current claim by the GOP is that Democrats are grooming children for pedophiles...

[Barrister]

Why would the Dems denounce random Tucker Carlson made-up talking points? Not denouncing is not equivalent to endorsement. It could just mean you don't want to engage with the crazies.

"random Tucker Carlson made-up talking points" would be replacement theory.  That's just sheer fantasy.  Or QAnon, pizzagate, or frazzledrip (look up the last one).  I agree Democratis shouldn't even engage with notions that they're secret satan-worshipers who kill or molest babies.

But every single one of those points I said are all well inside the progressive norm and you can find multiple quotes of Democratic-aligned politicians supporting each of them.

Doing this, by the way, is what allowed Joe Biden to become President!  He did denounce defund the police for example.  But he hasn't governed in the same manner.

[Zoupa]

I really don't think that's why Biden became president.

[Zoupa]

Truth of the matter is that Democratic policies are already centrist. They govern (when they can) in a centrist manner. They consistently win the popular vote.

I'm not sure what else can be done here, when the obstacles are structural.

[Barrister]

They do, well at least the ones that are actual policies.  Except student debt.  The majority support that already.

You sure about that?

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2022-04-25/only-38-of-young-americans-support-total-cancellation-of-student-loan-debt-poll

And that's just when asked in the abstract.  People generally like the idea of free money when asked, but less so when presented as actual policy.

Doing a quick google it suggests that 37% of Americans above the age of 25 graduated from college.  That of course means 63% did not.  Imagine you're a welder struggling with lots of debts of your own - a mortgage, car loan, credit cards - and you hear that a bunch of graduates from fancy schools are suddenly having their debt forgiven.

Or even if you are a college graduate yourself, but you decided to go to a less expensive state school, or gave up on graduate school, because you didn't want to take on so much debt.  Or you scrimped and saved for years in order to pay off your student debt.  Are you going to be happy that Biden is forgiving student loans for other people?