What the left gets wrong about economics that annoys the shit out of me

[Habbaku]

Shoe, meet other foot.

Your entire argument has devolved to "I know you are, but what am I?" dude.

[The Brain]

The foot is in the other mouth now.

OK Mart.

[Valmy]

The foot is in the other mouth now.

OK Mart.

[Zoupa]

Shoe, meet other foot.

Your entire argument has devolved to "I know you are, but what am I?" dude.

My argument and other peoples' are clearly posted in this thread, in non-inflammatory language. Berkut chose to respond by repeatedly characterizing, strawman arguing and putting words in people's mouths. I don't feel bad about responding in kind.

[PDH]

The foot is in the other mouth now.

Metric please.

[Habbaku]

Shoe, meet other foot.

Your entire argument has devolved to "I know you are, but what am I?" dude.

My argument and other peoples' are clearly posted in this thread, in non-inflammatory language. Berkut chose to respond by repeatedly characterizing, strawman arguing and putting words in people's mouths. I don't feel bad about responding in kind.

Your very first post in this thread is inflammatory. Do you really lack all sense of self-awareness? Are you unaware I can actually go look at your first post?

[Jacob]

Your very first post in this thread is inflammatory. Do you really lack all sense of self-awareness? Are you unaware I can actually go look at your first post?

If an inflammatory post justifies strawmanning and mischaracterizing non-inflammatory posts then that ship has sailed a long long time ago for languish.

[Habbaku]

That isn't what I am saying at all, Jacob.

[Jacob]

That isn't what I am saying at all, Jacob.

I misunderstood, then.

[Zoupa]

Feels like Berkypoo is having an argument with himself. Nobody is arguing to collectivize the means of production. Progressives are just asking for a fair(er) piece of the pie for everybody.

Why don't you head down to the nearest food bank with your charts and yell at those people that they should be thankful they're not starving.

Ok sure, I sprinkled some snark in there. The meat and potatoes of the post is still:"Nobody is arguing to collectivize the means of production. Progressives are just asking for a fair(er) piece of the pie for everybody."

[Zoupa]

To which Berkut responded "Funny how mad the crazy left gets if you even hint that maybe they should look at data and facts. Odd, that."

Positioning himself as the cool, collected and smart centrist ready to educate/condescend to the mad crazy leftist.

Kinda of going around in circles at this point.

[crazy canuck]

The foot is in the other mouth now.

Metric please.

Commie - I mean Socialist.

[Berkut]

Feels like Berkypoo is having an argument with himself. Nobody is arguing to collectivize the means of production. Progressives are just asking for a fair(er) piece of the pie for everybody.

Why don't you head down to the nearest food bank with your charts and yell at those people that they should be thankful they're not starving.

Ok sure, I sprinkled some snark in there. The meat and potatoes of the post is still:"Nobody is arguing to collectivize the means of production. Progressives are just asking for a fair(er) piece of the pie for everybody."

Oh yes, you "sprinkled some snark" in there, built a strawman, then where so kind as to lecture me about my own experience with poverty and acted like some privileged asshole telling some supposed elitist about the travails of the poor.

And you are the one acting like the mad crazy leftist, responding to simple facts and data with "GO TO THE SOUP KITCHEN AND TELL THEM ABOUT IT!".

I've been to a soup kitchen. I've eaten at a soup kitchen because we had no other food. I've worked in a soup kitchen.

Have you done any of those things yourself?

Actually, don't even bother - it's not like it matters either way. You and CC and the usual crowd have, as always succeeded at turning the discussion into a pissing match rather then having the guts to actually debate facts and data.

[Zoupa]

Actually, don't even bother

Ok!

[The Minsky Moment]

I read denunciation of capitalism as a call for radical transformation as the only possible solution to the kinds of challenge we are confronted with. It is not fueled by a coherent alternative replacement ideology. It doesn't really have a good sense of what could replace it. How could it? Imagining possible future worlds is famously challenging, and we don't have any good sense of the future right now, including for the proponents of the status quo, who are basically arguing there is nothing wrong with the way the world is set up, and that the challenges of the future are the future's problems. The world I live in has many features I like. It also has many features I dislike. To say they are the product of capitalism is simply to say the world we live in is a product of capitalism. It's not false, but it's not super helpful either.

I agree with this.  It says something about the dominance of capitalist paradigm that critiques of the system are mostly phrased in economic terms - stagnant wages, inequalities of income and wealth, sectors with monopolistic profits, and the seamy underbelly of finance. These are all real problems and in theory could be remedied through legislation and technical fixes.  But they are symptoms of a more fundamental political problem, which is inequality in effective power and influence.