Euro 2020/2021

[Josquius]

My sister lives in Wales. She's working as a teaching assistant in a primary school.
Apparently she promised the kids that she'd buy them all chocolate if England got to the final.
Woops.

[The Larch]

I was on a work call today with a bunch of Welshmen. You can imagine. 

Out of interest with other nations - how much did the 12 month delay change/shape your squad? I'm imagining quite a lot for Spain given their youth and possibly for Italy too and it's had a big impact with England (Saka, Grealish, Rice, Phillips, Mount, Foden for example probably wouldn't have made the team this time last year) - but I was wondering who else in your team wouldn't have been in the tournament if it happened when it was meant to?

We'd definitely have more "old guard" players around for sure, Ramos certainly, and some of the youngsters would be out as well, first of all Pedri, who was still a 17 y.o. playing in the 2nd division last year. I'd also possibly have more Real Madrid players, as they were the champions that year, so maybe players like Carvajal, Isco or Lucas Vázquez would be in. Maybe Cazorla could have been part of the team as well, as that was his last season at the top, and he even came back to the national team.

Doing some very quick calculations, I'd say it'd go like this:

Foreseeably in: Ramos, Kepa (or some other keeper), Carvajal, Isco, Cazorla, Lucas Vázquez,

Foreseeably out: Pedri, Robert Sánchez, Eric García, Laporte? (with Ramos in the squad his naturalization would not have been so urgent, I guess), Marcos Llorente, Ferrán Torres, Adama Traoré.

[Sheilbh]

God that would be such a shame! He has been wonderful

[The Larch]

God that would be such a shame! He has been wonderful

I assume you mean Pedri, right?

[Sheilbh]

Yeah, sorry

I feel like Torres would also have been a big miss.

[celedhring]

Pedri is about the only thing I look forward to about Barça.

Also Fati if his knee isn't fucked.

[The Larch]

Yeah, sorry

I feel like Torres would also have been a big miss.

Torres was still an U-21 player back then, and still at Valencia. He could have been called up, but it'd have been quite a surprise. It was his move to City what sped up his call up to the senior team.

[Jacob]

Reports of spitting at Danish fans at Wembley, including at children. Also someone aimed a green laser pointer at Schmeichel during the match, including during the penalty kick.

Poor show.

[Sheilbh]

Reports of spitting at Danish fans at Wembley, including at children. Also someone aimed a green laser pointer at Schmeichel during the match.

Poor show.

That's grim

I knew UEFA had launched an investigation into the laser. But hopefully - especially in a modern stadium - they can find whoever does it  and ban them for life very publicly and make it clear it won't be tolerated and they should do one if that's how they understand "supporting" a team.

Edit: And I saw the laser thing because it was visible in the ITV replay - I don't know if they were talking about it because I was in a pub, but you could see it.

[Duque de Bragança]

The laser thing was mentioned by commentators on French TV as well, even before the shootout.

[Josquius]

Reports of spitting at Danish fans at Wembley, including at children. Also someone aimed a green laser pointer at Schmeichel during the match, including during the penalty kick.

Poor show.

That these cunts exist is known.
But how the hell are they the ones getting the tickets.
Britain has always had its dick heads but I really fear this isn't the traditional hooligan rabble and is something different.

Really reminds me of the story of when they were filming the new dads army episodes a few years ago. There were some cultists in the audience who were getting much too into it.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7267985/Dads-Army-bosses-ordered-fans-stop-cheering-time-Corporal-Jones-shouts-catchphrase.html

[Sheilbh]

That these cunts exist is known.
But how the hell are they the ones getting the tickets.

So when the first pre-tournament friendly happened in Middlesbrough and there was booing at taking the knee I saw some speculation online that maybe it was the North-East etc etc - but I saw one journalist who was there who said that wasn't true and the worst booers were from the "Club England" folks who are signed up to the official FA England supporters club, buy lots of tickets always turn up etc. And I suspect they may be the worst offenders for a lot of this (I don't trust anyone who loves football but doesn't have a club and only really "supports" England) - and that might be why the FA doesn't properly crack down on stadiums.

Edit:
Also on this:

Britain has always had its dick heads but I really fear this isn't the traditional hooligan rabble and is something different.

I listened to a podcast which made me think about this a lot. They were talking specifically about booing the German anthem.

One of the journalists did say that he'd covered Albania-Serbia in Albania and the anthems were not listened to respectfully and the final of Copa America will be Argentina-Brazil and if the crowds were in the stadium the anthems would be getting a lot of abuse. But - and this hit home because it's true of me - the temptation would be to describe that as atmosphere. And I think there is a strange element that is true of English fans like me - possibly Americans and others too - of romanticising quite dodgy sides of football perhaps because we are removed from it so can enjoy as a tourist, perhaps literally going to some of the spicier Italian derbies for example. It also makes me think I have more sympathy for England fans booing the German anthem or the Scottish anthem (and Scottish fans booed God Save the Queen too) because there is a rivalry there. I find booing the Croatian or Danish anthem utterly baffling and more damning of the fans than with Scotland or Germany. And it's going to really annoy me on Sunday because the Italians have a magnificent anthem.

But he also mentioned that in Wembley when he was there the most popular England shirts were all retro and they were the Gazza 1990 kit, Euro 96 kit and the World in Motion kit. And I think in the same way that there's a romanticisation of bad things in football when it's overseas and part of "local colour" or "passion" or whatever, I think there's a nostalgia for the 80s-90s, pre-Premier League football. I've pulled up friends when we are moaning about the effect of money and commercialisation that it is important not accidentally nostalgise for the 80s and early 90s when football was exclusive, racist and violent (it's also incredibly striking if you look at pictures of football crowds in the 50s and 60s because there's so many women compared to the 70s-90s). And his thought, which I think is true, is for some young men in their twenties who weren't alive or can't remember when those strips were actually being worn by players - there's an element of cosplaying to going to an England game. They are cosplaying what they think an England fan does and how they behave - which is what some of them will have learned from their dads but for others is just a weird performance of being a cunt and shouting "No surrender" or singing "ten German bombers" (needless to say these men can't really remember the Troubles or the war either) because that's what England fans do, especially from that imagined "golden age" of pre-commercialised football which is only a golden age if you're young, white, straight, able-bodied and male.

[Jacob]

Personally I don't mind booing the anthems over much. I mean, it's not classy unless there're extenuating reasons... but really, whatever.

I rate hostility towards fans as worse than that, especially once it becomes physical because that very quickly makes going to games something that's only open to people who don't mind a spot of bovver, and that's just not right (even if I personally do have a bit of romantic attachment to that life in various ways). I have a particularly visceral reaction to spitting (even more so in these Covid times), and - of course - this is completely beyond the pale if directed at kids

[mongers]

Personally I don't mind booing the anthems over much. I mean, it's not classy unless there're extenuating reasons... but really, whatever.

I rate hostility towards fans as worse than that, especially once it becomes physical because that very quickly makes going to games something that's only open to people who don't mind a spot of bovver, and that's just not right (even if I personally do have a bit of romantic attachment to that life in various ways). I have a particularly visceral reaction to spitting (even more so in these Covid times), and - of course - this is completely beyond the pale if directed at kids

The wrong team won.

Some of those wanker-fans will be insufferable it their team wins.

[Josquius]

So when the first pre-tournament friendly happened in Middlesbrough and there was booing at taking the knee I saw some speculation online that maybe it was the North-East etc etc - but I saw one journalist who was there who said that wasn't true and the worst booers were from the "Club England" folks who are signed up to the official FA England supporters club, buy lots of tickets always turn up etc. And I suspect they may be the worst offenders for a lot of this (I don't trust anyone who loves football but doesn't have a club and only really "supports" England) - and that might be why the FA doesn't properly crack down on stadiums.

So whats needed is a complete rewrite of how England tickets are handled.
Link this hooliganism to the club England lot  and crush it.

I listened to a podcast which made me think about this a lot. They were talking specifically about booing the German anthem.

One of the journalists did say that he'd covered Albania-Serbia in Albania and the anthems were not listened to respectfully and the final of Copa America will be Argentina-Brazil and if the crowds were in the stadium the anthems would be getting a lot of abuse. But - and this hit home because it's true of me - the temptation would be to describe that as atmosphere. And I think there is a strange element that is true of English fans like me - possibly Americans and others too - of romanticising quite dodgy sides of football perhaps because we are removed from it so can enjoy as a tourist, perhaps literally going to some of the spicier Italian derbies for example. It also makes me think I have more sympathy for England fans booing the German anthem or the Scottish anthem (and Scottish fans booed God Save the Queen too) because there is a rivalry there. I find booing the Croatian or Danish anthem utterly baffling and more damning of the fans than with Scotland or Germany. And it's going to really annoy me on Sunday because the Italians have a magnificent anthem.

But he also mentioned that in Wembley when he was there the most popular England shirts were all retro and they were the Gazza 1990 kit, Euro 96 kit and the World in Motion kit. And I think in the same way that there's a romanticisation of bad things in football when it's overseas and part of "local colour" or "passion" or whatever, I think there's a nostalgia for the 80s-90s, pre-Premier League football. I've pulled up friends when we are moaning about the effect of money and commercialisation that it is important not accidentally nostalgise for the 80s and early 90s when football was exclusive, racist and violent (it's also incredibly striking if you look at pictures of football crowds in the 50s and 60s because there's so many women compared to the 70s-90s). And his thought, which I think is true, is for some young men in their twenties who weren't alive or can't remember when those strips were actually being worn by players - there's an element of cosplaying to going to an England game. They are cosplaying what they think an England fan does and how they behave - which is what some of them will have learned from their dads but for others is just a weird performance of being a cunt and shouting "No surrender" or singing "ten German bombers" (needless to say these men can't really remember the Troubles or the war either) because that's what England fans do, especially from that imagined "golden age" of pre-commercialised football which is only a golden age if you're young, white, straight, able-bodied and male.

Interesting theory.
Certainly I remember when I was a teenager or there abouts the huge trend for football hooligan films kicked off. Proper productions with decent actors at first and to this day still being made albeit lesser.
I can really see how some might be sucked into this. Though I'm not so sure about it all being performance, I think being heavily influenced by this stuff will have a natural overlap with heavy influence elsewhere. I just can't see many normal progressive 30 year olds shouting shit about the Nazis when England play Germany then going to the pub with their pan-European friends and moaning about the far right.