COVID vaccinations! Have you gotten yours?

[garbon]

Also I feel like wanting to choose to have Pfizer/Moderna over AZ/J&J is probably on the whole valid?

[Tamas]

Yeah - I find the whole pickiness about vaccines weird but had no idea there was any dislike of Moderna. Maybe just lower brand recognition in the UK (it's not been used as much)?

In Hungary it seems to be the favourite vaccine. There are folk tales of Pfizer messing with your heart, but I have heard nothing bad of Moderna.

[Tamas]

Also I feel like wanting to choose to have Pfizer/Moderna over AZ/J&J is probably on the whole valid?

I'd say so, it would have been my first choice certainly,  although I can also understand reservations about being jabbed with a brand new type of solution that was just rolled out during the pandemic.

[Sheilbh]

Also I feel like wanting to choose to have Pfizer/Moderna over AZ/J&J is probably on the whole valid?

I don't think anyone should have a choice. They're all safe, they all work and we don't have enough - but I am aware I'm very old school do as the doctor tells you on this (and a little anti-choice on healthcare in general)

People who don't want x vaccine should be told it's not a Starbucks and jabbed with whatever's to hand

[garbon]

I don't think anyone should have a choice. They're all safe, they all work and we don't have enough - but I am aware I'm very old school do as the doctor tells you on this (and a little anti-choice on healthcare in general)

As a person who makes a living asking doctor's their opinions, that stance is utterly ridiculous. Doctors aren't infallible human beings and there are plenty of bad ones alongside the good ones. Blindly following what a doctor says is one way to end up with a subpar outcome

People who don't want x vaccine should be told it's not a Starbucks and jabbed with whatever's to hand

Okay but many places have multiple vaccines on hand so then why wouldn't there be a choice?

[Sheilbh]

As a person who makes a living asking doctor's their opinions, that stance is utterly ridiculous. Doctors aren't infallible human beings and there are plenty of bad ones alongside the good ones. Blindly following what a doctor says is one way to end up with a subpar outcome

Absolutely I have healthcare horror stories from my family - and I think in general there should be an ability to get a second opinion. But we're in a pandemic, there still isn't enough supply and it's in the NHS - so you should just take what you get and be grateful.

If someone wants to get vaccinated on Harley Street then choice is part of what they're paying for (although I'd ban private healthcare offering covid vaccines right now).

Okay but many places have multiple vaccines on hand so then why wouldn't there be a choice?

Maybe if you had AZ as your first dose because that's not being used for booster shots. But I was under the impression they were trying to give people a different booster to the first round.

If that's not the case and you've got plenty in a vaccine site and it doesn't make any difference then I don't see the harm in there being some choice. But people who are kicking off about a site only having one vaccine or trying to pick and choose their site to get x brand need to take a look at themselves.

(I've suddenly turned into my grandmother - halfway to thinking we should just bring back rationing while we're at it )

[mongers]

Yeah - I find the whole pickiness about vaccines weird but had no idea there was any dislike of Moderna. Maybe just lower brand recognition in the UK (it's not been used as much)?

The curse of consumerism* working into all walks of life?



* brain rot.

[garbon]

Absolutely I have healthcare horror stories from my family - and I think in general there should be an ability to get a second opinion. But we're in a pandemic, there still isn't enough supply and it's in the NHS - so you should just take what you get and be grateful.

Grateful?! I think it should be a basic expectation that you can get a vaccine given that pretty much every other Western country is managing to make jabs available. I don't see how gratitude toward the government enters the picture.

If someone wants to get vaccinated on Harley Street then choice is part of what they're paying for (although I'd ban private healthcare offering covid vaccines right now).

Maybe if you had AZ as your first dose because that's not being used for booster shots. But I was under the impression they were trying to give people a different booster to the first round.

If that's not the case and you've got plenty in a vaccine site and it doesn't make any difference then I don't see the harm in there being some choice. But people who are kicking off about a site only having one vaccine or trying to pick and choose their site to get x brand need to take a look at themselves.

On this, we agree. Completely ridiculous to be complaining about the vaccine on offer. If really an issue, you can go elsewhere.

On bit in bold, I've no clue given comms have been about as clear as mud. I only know that's not necessarily the case in Canada or the US based on news articles I'd seen.

(I've suddenly turned into my grandmother - halfway to thinking we should just bring back rationing while we're at it )

I carved this point out not because I have something to say on it but because it isn't part of what I agree with.

[garbon]

Yeah - I find the whole pickiness about vaccines weird but had no idea there was any dislike of Moderna. Maybe just lower brand recognition in the UK (it's not been used as much)?

The curse of consumerism* working into all walks of life?

* brain rot.

In general, not all medicines for a given disease are equal/serve same identical purpose. Not sure why it is rampant consumerism (or brain rot) to have a preference. Doctors often do.

[Tamas]

On vaccine variety, I think perhaps for a change the Hungarian official explanations were better: the AZ and Sputnik vaccines use an adeno-virus (sp?) as carrier for the covid-19 genetic material (in fact I think they use the very same between each other). If you had either of these vaccines and just use the same for the third dose the risk is that your body, having also built up immunity for the carrier-virus, will just instant-wipe that out before the covid-19 bit could start working and generating a covid-19 specific immune response, rendering the shot ineffective. Well, that's the best way I can put what I remember from it. I think this might also be the reason why Sputnik has specific 1st and 2nd dose versions.

With an RNA vaccine, there is no such risk, so you can merrily keep receiving the same one.

[Sheilbh]

Grateful?! I think it should be a basic expectation that you can get a vaccine given that pretty much every other Western country is managing to make jabs available. I don't see how gratitude toward the government enters the picture.

I still think you should be grateful more at the existence of vaccines and that we're getting them - plus I am on this issue clearly turning into the standard lefty Brit getting teary eyed about "our NHS"

I carved this point out not because I have something to say on it but because it isn't part of what I agree with.

On vaccine variety, I think perhaps for a change the Hungarian official explanations were better: the AZ and Sputnik vaccines use an adeno-virus (sp?) as carrier for the covid-19 genetic material (in fact I think they use the very same between each other). If you had either of these vaccines and just use the same for the third dose the risk is that your body, having also built up immunity for the carrier-virus, will just instant-wipe that out before the covid-19 bit could start working and generating a covid-19 specific immune response, rendering the shot ineffective. Well, that's the best way I can put what I remember from it. I think this might also be the reason why Sputnik has specific 1st and 2nd dose versions.

Makes sense, my understanding from a friend who is a medical researcher but not in this area was actually the adenovirus (round one) plus mRNA (for vaccine two or booster) seems to offer the best protection. I think he said that was from some report - maybe because, from memory, one generated better T cell response while the other generated better anti-body response.

[Berkut]

Best protection, at least from what I heard on a podcast is, in order:

1. mRNA vaccine + survived COVID
2. mrNA vaccine alone
3. Survive COVID, no vaccine
4. non-mRNA vaccine + COVID
5. non-mRNA vaccine


edit: Disclaimer! This is just what I heard on a podcast. Im not a doctor. If this turns out to be wrong someday, then so be it.

[garbon]

I still think you should be grateful more at the existence of vaccines and that we're getting them - plus I am on this issue clearly turning into the standard lefty Brit getting teary eyed about "our NHS"

Sure but that's general gratitude like I'm happy I have a comfortable job that I can do from home, I'm happy for a loving spouse, I'm happy for all the opportunities I've had so far in life. Not gratitude of shut up and take whatever medicine we see fit to give you without questions.

[Tamas]

I still think you should be grateful more at the existence of vaccines and that we're getting them - plus I am on this issue clearly turning into the standard lefty Brit getting teary eyed about "our NHS"

Sure but that's general gratitude like I'm happy I have a comfortable job that I can do from home, I'm happy for a loving spouse, I'm happy for all the opportunities I've had so far in life. Not gratitude of shut up and take whatever medicine we see fit to give you without questions.

Now that you mention I think that's probably a big part of why vaccine uptake is so low in many East European countries. "Shut up  and do as you are told" has been an essential part of how the state managed its subjects for quite a many centuries over there, often under the control of foreign occupation and even more often with disastrous results for the individual.

Not that it's any excuse - health care in particular was a relative success story in the Eastern bloc I think, at the very least compared to attempts to keep up with other quality of life stuff of the first world.

[Sheilbh]

It reminds me of that poll that showed about 20% of Brits wanted lockdown rules, regardless of the covid situation