From the "Black People Arrest Themselves" files

[Jaron]

I think given the time and circumstance he grew up in, you could hardly blame him for these things. Today we would condemn someone with such views, but back then people of color had to look for strength in colored nations just to provide the downtrodden with examples that greatness and power was not exclusively reserved for white nations of the world.

His views are controversial but I hardly think it qualifies him as a dirtbag.

[CountDeMoney]

I don't know how they handle this in Maryland, but if shouting rudely in the earshot of others was sufficient to create criminal liability for disorderly conduct, the cops would have to arrest half the spectators at Camden Yards every game day.  And even more when the Yankees come to town.

And well they should, because it does.

Maryland
 

(c)(1)      A person may not willfully and without lawful purpose obstruct or hinder the free passage of another in a public place or on a public conveyance.
            (2)      A person may not willfully act in a disorderly manner that disturbs the public peace.
            (3)      A person may not willfully fail to obey a reasonable and lawful order that a law enforcement officer makes to prevent a disturbance to the public peace.
            (4)      A person who enters the land or premises of another, whether an owner or lessee, or a beach adjacent to residential riparian property, may not willfully:
                  (i)      disturb the peace of persons on the land, premises, or beach by making an unreasonably loud noise; or
                  (ii)      act in a disorderly manner.
            (5)      A person from any location may not, by making an unreasonably loud noise, willfully disturb the peace of another:
                  (i)      on the other's land or premises;
                  (ii)      in a public place; or
                  (iii)      on a public conveyance.
            (6)      In Worcester County, a person may not build a bonfire or allow a bonfire to burn on a beach or other property between 1 a.m. and 5 a.m.
      (d)      A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 60 days or a fine not exceeding $500 or both.

[CountDeMoney]

I make no greater claim to accuracy.

No, just to moral superiority.

[derspiess]

I think given the time and circumstance he grew up in, you could hardly blame him for these things.

Oh, yes I can.  There's no excuse for some of the sympathies he had.

[Malthus]

I would love to see a Rashomon type treatment of this.

POLICE VERSION: An unshaven, simian looking Gates shambles to the door smoking a huge joint; in the background a posse of pipe-hitting negros lurk menacingly. Gates, politely, says "sorry to disturb you, Sir, but we had a report of a break in ... ". He gets no further before Gates, in an explosion of profanity and abuse, screams "RASSIS BASTARD!" and threatens to have Obama castrate his first born. 

GATES VERSION: He answers the door calmly and politely and the policeman says "Hit the floor Kunta Kinte! Anybody moves in here you're dead!" while an angry white mob outside screams "Lynch him! Hang him high!"

IN BETWEEN VERSION: Two men meet, one is officious the other one a jerk, things get completely out of hand, Gates says things he shouldn't, the officer arrests him when he shouldn't have. It is less about race than personalities, the officer is severely reprimanded and sent to anger management training and Gates is forced to write "I am not Rosa Parks" one hundred times on Twitter.

*adapted from stuff I read on another board

[Jaron]

I think given the time and circumstance he grew up in, you could hardly blame him for these things.

Oh, yes I can.  There's no excuse for some of the sympathies he had.

You can if you put it in the viewpoint of 21st or even late 20th century thought. But a black man growing up in a white world where all the time they hear colored people are a lesser race, not as intelligent as white people, not as good..

First of all, he would look at Japan winning great victories in Asia and say "Look! Here is a perfect example of a non white people establishing a powerful nation" - especially in a time when just about colored nation outside Latin America was owned by European Imperialist powers.

Secondly, Hitler and the whole German Nazi thing might be a black mark to you, or maybe in some ways a source of pride since so many of you seem to not have a Nazi, but a German/Prussian fetish, but to someone who is a minority and a target of what Hitler was preaching against, Stalin being the destroyer of Hitler would make him a hero to some.

I don't buy into the whole communist craze that some people here (you, Berkut to name a couple) seem to froth up about, so I won't go there, but I'm sure you can see how given the circumstances his viewpoints made sense. You don't have to approve of them, but at least don't conden him.

In your eyes, do you think it would be best for blacks to wave American flags and eat apple pie and wait patiently for freedoms? Of course, even given the freedoms gained in the civil rights era there would be some scorn reserved for the system that oppressed blacks for so long.

[CountDeMoney]

You can if you put it in the viewpoint of 21st or even late 20th century thought. But a black man growing up in a white world where all the time they hear colored people are a lesser race, not as intelligent as white people, not as good..

First of all, he would look at Japan winning great victories in Asia and say "Look! Here is a perfect example of a non white people establishing a powerful nation" - especially in a time when just about colored nation outside Latin America was owned by European Imperialist powers.

Secondly, Hitler and the whole German Nazi thing might be a black mark to you, or maybe in some ways a source of pride since so many of you seem to not have a Nazi, but a German/Prussian fetish, but to someone who is a minority and a target of what Hitler was preaching against, Stalin being the destroyer of Hitler would make him a hero to some.

I don't buy into the whole communist craze that some people here (you, Berkut to name a couple) seem to froth up about, so I won't go there, but I'm sure you can see how given the circumstances his viewpoints made sense. You don't have to approve of them, but at least don't conden him.

In your eyes, do you think it would be best for blacks to wave American flags and eat apple pie and wait patiently for freedoms? Of course, even given the freedoms gained in the civil rights era there would be some scorn reserved for the system that oppressed blacks for so long.

Best troll of the day.

[Eddie Teach]

Best troll of the day.

You think so? I'm kind of bored with Jaron's racial studies professor schtick.

[The Minsky Moment]

I make no greater claim to accuracy.

No, just to moral superiority.

I try to play to my strengths.   

If the subject involved the merits of various rope tensile strengths for achieving the best bondage experiences, I would defer to you. 

[derspiess]

I don't buy into the whole communist craze that some people here (you, Berkut to name a couple) seem to froth up about,

I'm shocked.

so I won't go there, but I'm sure you can see how given the circumstances his viewpoints made sense.

No.

[CountDeMoney]

I make no greater claim to accuracy.

No, just to moral superiority.

I try to play to my strengths.   

If the subject involved the merits of various rope tensile strengths for achieving the best bondage experiences, I would defer to you.

Now you're just patronizing.

[Valmy]

His admiration for Stalin, communism (IIRC he officially joined up), imperial Japan whilst it was raping China, not to mention his hatred for just about everything white and/or American. 

The fact that he happened to be on the right side of some civil rights issues doesn't negate all this, either.

I do agree that towards the end of his life he went a little nuts.


However the really messed up thing he did was convince Black America to support Woodrow Wilson...whoops.

[CountDeMoney]

re: DuBois' Bolshevism:  not that big of a deal. 

[Razgovory]

I think given the time and circumstance he grew up in, you could hardly blame him for these things.

Oh, yes I can.  There's no excuse for some of the sympathies he had.

There's no excuse for lots of sympathies people have.  For instance you and G. Gordon Liddy.

[grumbler]

Could you provide a quotation and a source?  According to the police report, the officer invited to come outside to speak with him further.  It is also clear from the report that while the officer walked out of the house down the stairs to the sidewalk, Gates never left the porch of the house.

Sure, right after you post the transcript I asked for. 

So any source you have read that indicates Gates "chased" after the officer is mistaken.

Perhaps.  But your say-so doesn't make it so.

Well the police report contains various verbatim statements he is alleged to have made.  These consist of the following:

"Why, because I am a black man in America?"
"I'll speak with your mama outside"
"You don't know who you are messing with"
"I am disabled" [and cannot walk without my cane]
"This is what happens to Black men in America"

The report also indicates that Gates accused the officer of being racist but does not recount any other specific words used. 

While the statements made by Gates according to the police are not of the sort typically expected in refined discourse, they hardly rise to the level of "verbal assault" - whatever the hell that is supposed to be.  I hear a lot worse by people trying to get on and off the subway just about every day.

Not sure what "verbal assault" has to do with anything.  You have left out, BTW, some of the verbatim words of Gates and added some that were not in the police report http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

The police officer claims (and this is, insofar as I know, uncontested, that he twice warned Gates that he was engaged in disorderly conduct, but Gates ignored him.  While one might argue that even warning Gates was unwise, as the grounds for arrest were two flimsy, it says a lot about Gates's state of mind that he continued his harangue even after the warnings.