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Bernie v Joe, Who do you like?

Started by Admiral Yi, March 02, 2020, 03:59:29 PM

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Bernard Sanders
24 (40.7%)
Joseph Biden
29 (49.2%)
This question scares me
6 (10.2%)

Total Members Voted: 59

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Grey Fox

#45
March 02, 2020, 08:25:08 PM
Biden isn't in my top 2 no matter how big the field is.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

Admiral Yi

#46
March 02, 2020, 08:51:03 PM
He was my fourth pick on Caucus day.

Eddie Teach

#47
March 02, 2020, 08:54:19 PM
He's my 4th pick now.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Sophie Scholl

#48
March 02, 2020, 08:57:55 PM
Warren-->Sanders---------------------------------------------------------->Tulsi->Biden--------->Bloomberg
"Everything that brought you here -- all the things that made you a prisoner of past sins -- they are gone. Forever and for good. So let the past go... and live."

"Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did."

Razgovory

#49
March 02, 2020, 09:17:57 PM
You'd vote for a woman who is angling for a job at Fox News before you'd vote Biden?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

grumbler

#50
March 02, 2020, 09:22:09 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 02, 2020, 08:21:03 PM
He's a social democrat, which is even better.

He claims that he's not - that he is, instead, a democratic socialist.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

#51
March 02, 2020, 09:23:20 PM
I'd also prefer Warren to either, but that's not one of the choices.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Sophie Scholl

#52
March 02, 2020, 10:10:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 02, 2020, 09:17:57 PM
You'd vote for a woman who is angling for a job at Fox News before you'd vote Biden?
Correct.  Its a close run thing, but at least she isn't in the early stages of senility and dementia.  I suppose if Biden put Warren or someone else I really liked as a running mate he'd move up.  Regardless, whomever ends up with the nod I prefer dramatically over Trump if only on a harm reduction level.
"Everything that brought you here -- all the things that made you a prisoner of past sins -- they are gone. Forever and for good. So let the past go... and live."

"Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did."

Sheilbh

#53
March 03, 2020, 02:22:48 AM
Quote from: Barrister on March 02, 2020, 05:19:12 PMAnd that ammo hasn't already been spent?  Joe Biden is the most vetted individual in history, having run for the nomination 3 times now, having served as VP for two terms.  From being overly friendly with women, to stealing Neil Kinnock's speech in the 80s, to his son's involvement with a Ukrainian gas company... it's all out there.
What bit of this wasn't also said about Clinton? I think it's very naive and ignores the last four years and the last election if you think it's done - Biden's been vetted and we won't hear constantly about Ukraine from Trump and other Republicans, and that the media won't cover it in the same sort of way they covered Hilary's emails.

This is the biggest reason I think Biden's a risk. It is like Clinton, it's very easy for Trump to point at Biden and say "they're all corrupt, at least I'm honest and I'm on your side". I think you need a candidate who is clearly different and perceived as different from Trump and I'm not sure that's Biden.

QuoteHe doesn't need "excited" voters - he just needs voters.  And lots of people are motivated to vote for him.  They're called "the middle".  People tired of the clown show that is Trump, and want no part of Bernie's permanent revolution.
Yeah that's fine (though again it reminds me of 2016) - what do you think Biden's map is?

I can see how Bernie works (though it would hurt the Democrats running for the Senate etc), because I think there is a route to winning for Bernie that runs through winning back the rust-belt. I think the route that involves people who are tired of the clown show is more like where the Democrats did well in 2018 - so it's in the suburbs and is riskier because some of those states are more traditionally purple than the rust-belt. But I'm not sure Biden's a particularly good candidate for those voters and I think he'll focus on the rust-belt because that's his image of himself.

I also think relying on voters being tired of Trump is a dangerous assumption and one every candidate made in 2016.

QuoteI stand by my statement that Trump has political savvy, but what he isn't is subtle.
I slightly disagree. I think Trump did this in 2016 and if Bernie wins he'll do something similar. I'm sure you're right that he things Sanders is the weaker candidate (just like I imagine Democrats cheered when they realised they'd be up against Trump). But I think what Trump is doing is more about discouraging Sanders voters from turning out in November and if he wins he'll have similar lines aimed at Bernie supporters.

He also spent 2016 saying the DNC were stealing it from Bernie, that there was a coup. I think he'll do the same this time round. He did it in October too about how there were improprieties in Democratic states - letting millions of illegal immigrants vote - I think he'll do that again too.

QuoteI like Bernie, as a guy.  I think that he is sincere, even though ineffective.  I think he'd be no danger to the country if elected, because he doesn't have any power base and wouldn't let himself be used as a tool of the vested interests.

I loathe every one of his followers that I have met personally, though.  They are self-righteous to an obnoxious extent and think that they and their messiah are the only moral people in the country.  That's the definition of "the position of privilege."
Bernie isn't Corbyn, but his support and movement reminds me a lot of Corbynism.
Let's bomb Russia!

Tamas

#54
March 03, 2020, 03:45:54 AM
I will be very pleasantly surprised by the American public if either of them defeats Trump.

Sanders takes good ideas to uncomfortable extremes, and Biden tries to appear as a reasonable man, which is repulsive to today's sensibilities.

Razgovory

#55
March 03, 2020, 04:13:46 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on March 02, 2020, 10:10:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 02, 2020, 09:17:57 PM
You'd vote for a woman who is angling for a job at Fox News before you'd vote Biden?
Correct.  Its a close run thing, but at least she isn't in the early stages of senility and dementia.  I suppose if Biden put Warren or someone else I really liked as a running mate he'd move up.  Regardless, whomever ends up with the nod I prefer dramatically over Trump if only on a harm reduction level.


Ah, so you'd rather have someone who intends to harm us over someone who may do so because they are senile.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

MadImmortalMan

#56
March 03, 2020, 04:28:05 AM
Many in my family who have been huge Dem participants and insiders called me for the NV caucus to see if I'd go vote for Bloomberg. Is there a Durbin wing of the party? That would accurately describe them. My cousin got a lawyer when Blago got out of jail.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

jimmy olsen

#57
March 03, 2020, 04:53:22 AM
Sanders
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

celedhring

#58
March 03, 2020, 05:23:51 AM
I haven't followed the race that closely, but my pick would be Warren. Given that she's not a viable option, I find myself closer to Sanders, but his electability in the US gives me pause. So I'm a bit torn, but went with Sanders.

Tamas

#59
March 03, 2020, 05:28:57 AM
Quote from: celedhring on March 03, 2020, 05:23:51 AM
I haven't followed the race that closely, but my pick would be Warren. Given that she's not a viable option, I find myself closer to Sanders, but his electability in the US gives me pause. So I'm a bit torn, but went with Sanders.

He doesn't sound electable, but a lukewarm middle-of-the-road guy will put people to sleep nowadays, so Biden won't win either.

It'll be a Trump re-election followed by an Ivanka presidency.
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