Freedom of Expression in Academia and Employment - formerly the Trans Issues.

[mongers]

NB Thread now retitled.


What Berkut was talking about:

Oxford professor given protection following threats from trans activists
25 January 2020 

An Oxford professor given protection after alleged threats from transgender rights activists says she did not want to "wait and see if I'd get hit in the face" before taking action.

Selina Todd, modern history professor at St Hilda's College, said members of staff accompanied her to lectures after learning of threats on social media.

Prof Todd has now warned against shutting down debates.

The University of Oxford said it did not comment on individual arrangements.

The academic told BBC Radio 4's Today programme she felt "vulnerable" having previously experienced hostility from some academics and students.

Prof Todd said the threats come from some campaigners who believe her views on the need to protect women's spaces, such as single-sex refuges, from people who self-identify as women but are anatomically male are unacceptable.

The academic said that she has witnessed "quite antagonistic" and "quite confrontational" protests outside women's rights meetings she has spoken at in the past.

But she insisted that discussions about women's rights should not be silenced.
.....

Full item here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/education-51248684

Maya Forstater: Woman loses tribunal over transgender tweets
19 December 2019 

A woman who lost her job after saying that people cannot change their biological sex has lost an employment tribunal.

Maya Forstater, 45, did not have her contract renewed after posting a series of tweets questioning government plans to let people declare their own gender.

Ms Forstater believes trans women holding certificates that recognise their transgender identity cannot describe themselves as women.

But that view is "not worthy of respect in a democratic society", a judge said.
Gender passport rules 'unlawful', court hears

Ms Forstater, who had worked as a tax expert at the think tank Center for Global Development, was not entitled to ignore the rights of a transgender person and the "enormous pain that can be caused by misgendering", employment judge James Tayler said.

Ms Forstater was "absolutist" in her view, he concluded in a 26-page judgement.

"It is a core component of her belief that she will refer to a person by the sex she considered appropriate even if it violates their dignity and/or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment," he continued.

"The approach is not worthy of respect in a democratic society."

Full item here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50858919

[The Brain]

Which is it? Did she lose her job or didn't she get her contract renewed?

[Valmy]

Yeah I don't know Brit speak, so I am not sure what exactly went down besides that that woman is no longer employed studying taxes. But hey once again twitter is just a great place to hang out if you want to be fired from your job and have your life ruined because you had a bad opinion at some point in your life.

[Sophie Scholl]

Which is it? Did she lose her job or didn't she get her contract renewed?

Her contract wasn't renewed.  She framed it as being "fired".  It also wasn't one or two tweets, but dozens of tweets and in-person comments and more.  TERFs are fucking awful.

[Admiral Yi]

Transgender certificates are a bizarre concept.

[DGuller]

But that view is "not worthy of respect in a democratic society", a judge said.

Now there is a perfectly good Orwellian phrase.

[Tamas]

Transgender certificates are a bizarre concept.

So according to this judge  it is incompatible with modern society to openly disagree on the gender of a person, especially if they have a government certificate stating that they have had at least two different genders during their life, then?

[Tamas]

But that view is "not worthy of respect in a democratic society", a judge said.

Now there is a perfectly good Orwellian phrase.

The societal/opinion pressure on this in the UK has already caused a lot of grief to teenagers, as -according to a Guardian article- most therapists are keen to push any teenagers with doubts about their true gender to gender-change medications, as to avoid being labelled intolerant, if they want to discuss the issue with the kid.

[crazy canuck]

But that view is "not worthy of respect in a democratic society", a judge said.

Now there is a perfectly good Orwellian phrase.

The problem is the article does not describe what happened.  Thankfully the reasons are linked so one can read what did occur.

This was a preliminary application to decide whether the stated beliefs were philosophical beliefs which are protected from discrimination under the Act. 

The court described all of the laws of both the UK and EU which permit a person to self identify their gender.  The court noted the applicant was free to disagree with those laws, argue that they ought to be changed and to openly discuss all those matters.  If her ability to do those things was infringed then she would have had a case.

But that was not her claim.  What she argued is a legal right to ignore those laws and refuse to acknowledge a self identified gender.

The part you quoted was the judge correctly noting that one cannot simply choose to ignore the law. 

[crazy canuck]

Transgender certificates are a bizarre concept.

Under UK law it is the formal way a person can self identify a gender which is different from the one they were assigned at birth.

[Maximus]

Transgender certificates are a bizarre concept.

Why?

[Admiral Yi]

Transgender certificates are a bizarre concept.

Why?

Because I don't see what is gained by handing out a certificate as opposed to a someone just saying to you "hello, I identify as a woman."  Are we right to doubt the person saying but wrong to doubt the person with a certificate?

[crazy canuck]

Transgender certificates are a bizarre concept.

Why?

Because I don't see what is gained by handing out a certificate as opposed to a someone just saying to you "hello, I identify as a woman."  Are we right to doubt the person saying but wrong to doubt the person with a certificate?

Has to do with legal documents like passports where one does not simply verbally declare.

[Sheilbh]

The certificate allows someone to change the gender on their passport, request a new birth certificate etc. It determines your legal gender in the eyes of the state - in the same way as a birth certificate/passport does.

There's a move to change the process because it's seen as potentially quite demeaning at times to allow more self-identification like you're suggesting. But when the Gender Recognition Act came in authorising these certificates (2004) I think it was unprecedented and the first legislation of its type in the world. What's really striking is that all this happened with relatively little controversy because in 2004 trans-issues weren't really part of a culture war and certainly not one that affected the UK.

[Sophie Scholl]

The societal/opinion pressure on this in the UK has already caused a lot of grief to teenagers, as -according to a Guardian article- most therapists are keen to push any teenagers with doubts about their true gender to gender-change medications, as to avoid being labelled intolerant, if they want to discuss the issue with the kid.

There are a lot of steps that need to be taken before any medications are prescribed almost anywhere but especially the UK.  Numerous tiers of meetings with psychologists, meeting with doctors, and more.  This is after making one's way through the incredibly long wait list that exists to even start the process.  Nothing is being "pushed" on people.  The grief for trans teens is often the hurdles they face and hoops they must jump through to obtain the help they need and seek.  That help may upset TERFs and family, but the person whose opinion should matter the most is the individual seeking help.  Also, teens are given puberty blockers which aren't "gender-change medication", but simply delay the onset of their assigned at birth puberty.  They can cease to be taken and the normal puberty of the person's assigned at birth gender will occur.  It allows for people to have more time to decide what the right course of action is for them without the dramatic changes that puberty brings to the body.