Freedom of Expression in Academia and Employment - formerly the Trans Issues.

[Josquius]

This culture war stuff is just bizzare. It's amazing how absolutely obsessed about trans people certain people on the hard right can be.
This stuff about crooks becoming women purely to make assault easier is particularly stupid.

[dps]

But that was not her claim.  What she argued is a legal right to ignore those laws and refuse to acknowledge a self identified gender.

The part you quoted was the judge correctly noting that one cannot simply choose to ignore the law. 

So, in the UK, if someone identifies as a man and has a certificate to prove it, it's against the law to call that person "she"?

[The Brain]

But that was not her claim.  What she argued is a legal right to ignore those laws and refuse to acknowledge a self identified gender.

The part you quoted was the judge correctly noting that one cannot simply choose to ignore the law. 

So, in the UK, if someone identifies as a man and has a certificate to prove it, it's against the law to call that person "she"?

Easy, girl.

[Sophie Scholl]

But that was not her claim.  What she argued is a legal right to ignore those laws and refuse to acknowledge a self identified gender.

The part you quoted was the judge correctly noting that one cannot simply choose to ignore the law. 

So, in the UK, if someone identifies as a man and has a certificate to prove it, it's against the law to call that person "she"?

It is against the law to claim you've been discriminated against on the basis of "philosophical arguments" if you continually and maliciously misgender people, question their right to exist as they do, and launch attacks against them unprovoked online and in person.  Seems like a pretty reasonable law and interpretation of it.  Insert "Nazi" and "Jewish person" or "KKK member" and "Person of color" instead of "TERF" and "trans person" and see if it makes more sense.

[Admiral Yi]

It's difficult for me to use TERF in a sentence and think it makes any sense.

[Valmy]

It's difficult for me to use TERF in a sentence and think it makes any sense.

Nationalistic feminists who are worried their perfect female-exclusive society will be corrupted by subhumans is just too long to write though.

[Sophie Scholl]

It's difficult for me to use TERF in a sentence and think it makes any sense.

What type of field do they play on in Gillette Stadium, AT&T Stadium, Lucas Oil Stadium, and many others?  Ok.  Now you've acknowledged that you can form the word and say it.  Expand outward from there.  I believe in you. 

[Admiral Yi]

"I question the right of astroturf to exist."

You're right!

[Sheilbh]

So, in the UK, if someone identifies as a man and has a certificate to prove it, it's against the law to call that person "she"?

You can call them "she" all you want. You can't then say that not having your contract renewed was discrimination against your sincerely held belief.

Basically there's a line between your belief, and how you act upon it - if you're acting in a way that affects others and amounts to harassment then your fundamental right to act on your sincerely held belief is outweighed by the effects on other people's fundamental rights.

It's a bit like someone being able to sincerely hold the view that all gays are damned to eternal damnation. It's something you can believe and you can say. If you keep saying it so much that HR get involved because your gay colleagues are getting upset, you probably won't be able to claim discrimination.

[Maximus]

Transgender certificates are a bizarre concept.

Why?

Because I don't see what is gained by handing out a certificate as opposed to a someone just saying to you "hello, I identify as a woman."  Are we right to doubt the person saying but wrong to doubt the person with a certificate?

It's a change in legal status.

[grumbler]

It's difficult for me to use TERF in a sentence and think it makes any sense.

You aren't intolerant enough to use the term the way it is intended.

[garbon]

The societal/opinion pressure on this in the UK has already caused a lot of grief to teenagers, as -according to a Guardian article- most therapists are keen to push any teenagers with doubts about their true gender to gender-change medications, as to avoid being labelled intolerant, if they want to discuss the issue with the kid.

There are a lot of steps that need to be taken before any medications are prescribed almost anywhere but especially the UK.  Numerous tiers of meetings with psychologists, meeting with doctors, and more.  This is after making one's way through the incredibly long wait list that exists to even start the process.  Nothing is being "pushed" on people.  The grief for trans teens is often the hurdles they face and hoops they must jump through to obtain the help they need and seek.  That help may upset TERFs and family, but the person whose opinion should matter the most is the individual seeking help.  Also, teens are given puberty blockers which aren't "gender-change medication", but simply delay the onset of their assigned at birth puberty.  They can cease to be taken and the normal puberty of the person's assigned at birth gender will occur.  It allows for people to have more time to decide what the right course of action is for them without the dramatic changes that puberty brings to the body.

Yeah, I'm surprised to hear this from Tamas. I can't imagine that anyone with any experience with the NHS would make a remark that doctors are able to push medications willy nilly at patients.

[Berkut]

I am not please with my name being associated with this - it is very much NOT AT ALL what I was talking about.

[crazy canuck]

But that was not her claim.  What she argued is a legal right to ignore those laws and refuse to acknowledge a self identified gender.

The part you quoted was the judge correctly noting that one cannot simply choose to ignore the law. 

So, in the UK, if someone identifies as a man and has a certificate to prove it, it's against the law to call that person "she"?

No, she was arguing that she was being discriminated against because her employer was concerned that she was adamant that she would not address people in the manner they were legally entitled to be addressed and so did not renew her contract. 

[The Minsky Moment]

I am not please with my name being associated with this - it is very much NOT AT ALL what I was talking about.

I was going to say . . .

The legal background here is quite different from the US at will context where the grounds for discrimination lawsuits are narrower. This plaintiff would never have a had a shot in the US as holding "philosophical views" doesn't put a person in a protected class.