Coronavirus Sars-CoV-2/Covid-19 Megathread

[Zanza]

In the UK at least, over half of the infections are in kids who are incredibly low risk - I think the estimate is that about 6-7% of kids have covid right now, but overall estimates are that around 70-75% of kids have had covid at some point in the last year.

I read about a study recently that found 10% of kids having Long Covid symptoms like not being able to smell or taste as well as before etc.

At infection rates as high as you point out, the vaccine would be safer than just letting them get infected without prior immunization.  Pretending children are at no risk will be the latest folly of our governments in this pandemic.

They are not dying typically, but a child losing its sens of taste, maybe forever, seems as bad as an octogenarian dying a few weeks earlier from Covid than from old age...

[Sheilbh]

I read about a study recently that found 10% of kids having Long Covid symptoms like not being able to smell or taste as well as before etc.

I don't think it's that high. It's difficult because there's no single illness so there's no test. But I think the estimates from the big ONS study in September is that betwen 0-1.7% of kids get long covid. The most common long covid symptoms in kids are headaches, fatigue and "brain fog". These are also symptoms that control groups of kids have at quite high levels - so at both week 4 and week 12 more children in the 2-11years control group have common long covid symptoms than the kids who had covid, it's slightly different with teens. I definitely think I would have had at least fatigue and "brain fog" for most of the time I was a kid

My understanding is that loss of taste/smell is very rare. It's something that about 40% of symptomatic cases have (and only a third of covid cases in kids are symptomatic). About 75-80% of people report that their senses are back a month after they had covid and longer term than that others also recover. It also seems to be another age-related symptom where it's more common as you get older.

At some point I think we'll start breaking out long covid into various syndromes - so loss of sense of taste and smell or a persistent cough are clearly more concerning than the most common symptoms. But they are also rarer and in a smaller group.

I've linked to his stuff before but Alasdair Munro who's a paediatric registrar and researcher in paediatric infectious diseases has said those stats back anecdotal clinical experience too that for some, long covid is debilitating but for the vast majority of kids it's not an issue.

At infection rates as high as you point out, the vaccine would be safer than just letting them get infected without prior immunization.  Pretending children are at no risk will be the latest folly of our governments in this pandemic.

They are not dying typically, but a child losing its sens of taste, maybe forever, seems as bad as an octogenarian dying a few weeks earlier from Covid than from old age...

I agree on sense of taste/smell but that is also incredibly rare so there is a risk/benefit analysis.

I know that Pfizer have developed a vaccine for pre-teens, I don't know if it's been authorised anywhere yet. I'm not sure if it will be used in the UK given that the body that advises on vaccine roll-out in the UK (and only looks at direct health risk/benefits) didn't think that vaccinating 12-16 year olds was justified in terms of health benefits (including long covid). That was approved by the Chief Medical Officers who called on other advice for things like indirect benefits, reduction of transmission etc - even then I think it's only one dose (because the incidence of myocarditis seems to happen in younger males after the second dose). Given that, I think the medical authorities here will be probably unlikely to support vaccinating pre-teens, but I could be wrong. It may also not be necessary at current rates of infection and the estimates that two-thirds to three quarters have already had covid.

I actually think most European governments have got the balance right on kids - re-opening and trying to keep schools open, being relatively relaxed around masking especially at young ages etc. That seems to me an appropriate response. I think - from what I see - the US response of masking toddlers, of very long school closures compared to Europe, seems disproportionate. Given that we know hybrid learning has different impacts depending on family wealth and class and how important early years are I think that will be the policy path that's seen as a folly.

[Berkut]

I have family member who still insist that you should "do your own research" and "do what is right for your family, based on your own research".

When challenged, they immediately point out that the mainstream media is all biased, so you cannot trust what it says.

People are literally dying because of the "MSM is all liberal!" narrative that has been so successfully driven home. Mostly stupid people, for sure, but still....

[Barrister]

I have family member who still insist that you should "do your own research" and "do what is right for your family, based on your own research".

When challenged, they immediately point out that the mainstream media is all biased, so you cannot trust what it says.

People are literally dying because of the "MSM is all liberal!" narrative that has been so successfully driven home. Mostly stupid people, for sure, but still....

You do know it's possible for your family member to be an idiot and for the MSM to have a liberal bias, right?

[Berkut]

I have family member who still insist that you should "do your own research" and "do what is right for your family, based on your own research".

When challenged, they immediately point out that the mainstream media is all biased, so you cannot trust what it says.

People are literally dying because of the "MSM is all liberal!" narrative that has been so successfully driven home. Mostly stupid people, for sure, but still....

You do know it's possible for your family member to be an idiot and for the MSM to have a liberal bias, right?

Lots of things are possible.

Of course, we've already shown that in fact the MSM does not have a "liberal bias" in the sense that is meant when you, Tucker, Rush, and Sean repeat it over and over and over and over and over and over again.

*You* can pretend you don't mean what the entire rest of the right wing "conservative" world means when they make that claim - that the media cannot be trusted, and their bias means they are all lying to us - that in fact it is all "fake news".

But that isn't what the people your narrative is intended for are hearing, and you know that perfectly well.

The latest I heard from someone whose aunt died from COVID at the age of 72, not vaccinated, was "She may have died WITH Covid, but that doesn't mean she died FROM Covid!". Because hardly anybody actually dies from Covid, and they know this because that is what their reliable news sources tell them. Because the MSM has a liberal bias, and hence cannot be trusted.

But hey, they are all idiots, and so it's not anyone's fault that they mis-interpreted your "MSM has a liberal bias!" chant to actually mean something real.

[Josquius]

Even if we pretend the media does have a 'liberal' bias and is non-stop talk about how you should never ever vote conservative....
What the fuck does that have to do with getting vaccinated?
Its ridiculous the conservatives have fucked their voter-base by making it political.

[Berkut]

Even if we pretend the media does have a 'liberal' bias and is non-stop talk about how you should never ever vote conservative....
What the fuck does that have to do with getting vaccinated?
Its ridiculous the conservatives have fucked their voter-base by making it political.

Is it though?

They are almost certain to overturn Row v Wade here in the next year or so.

"The MSM is biased!" is part of the narrative and story that has gotten them to the place where they can justify totally abandoning any need for majority rule, and allowed them to pack the SC with a radicalized minority who can and will impose the "conservative" will on the majority.

It is ridiculous? It seems to have worked pretty well for them, in fact.

You can tell by the defense of that narrative that the general feeling is that the ends justified the means. Some people will die, lots of them in fact. And democracy is kind of broken. But you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs!

[The Minsky Moment]

Some people will die, lots of them in fact.

What difference does that make?  Jesus will save the good ones, and they'll be better off.  The rest got what was coming.

[The Brain]

Jesus grab your heels.

[Sheilbh]

Really interesting/surprsing/striking numbers in the UK today (in a positive way)

[Barrister]

So there's reason to think the kids vaccine will be approved by the end of the year.

Here's my question though - the kids vaccine is based on a dose about 1/3 the amount for those 12 and up.  But my oldest is turning 12 next year.  He's already tested positive for Covid (asymptomatic).  Would he be better off waiting to get the adult vaccine?

[Josquius]

So there's reason to think the kids vaccine will be approved by the end of the year.

Here's my question though - the kids vaccine is based on a dose about 1/3 the amount for those 12 and up.  But my oldest is turning 12 next year.  He's already tested positive for Covid (asymptomatic).  Would he be better off waiting to get the adult vaccine?

IIRC, and really not sure I do, antibodies from having had covid tend to die quicker than the vaccine antibodies?
I'm sure I remember reading something about this with people who had covid in the past questioning whether they should be vaccinated.
But yeah. If the kids one is weaker would that still hold up?

[Sheilbh]

IIRC, and really not sure I do, antibodies from having had covid tend to die quicker than the vaccine antibodies?

I think it's the other way round. But natural infection plus vaccine (possibly as a booster) seems to be the most effective.

I'd imagine dosage level probably doesn't have that much impact because presumably it's just sort of re-activating your immune system, right - so as long as it does that?

[Jacob]

So there's reason to think the kids vaccine will be approved by the end of the year.

Here's my question though - the kids vaccine is based on a dose about 1/3 the amount for those 12 and up.  But my oldest is turning 12 next year.  He's already tested positive for Covid (asymptomatic).  Would he be better off waiting to get the adult vaccine?

I would expect they'll figure out the transition, since there's a whole cohort of kids in your son's situation. I think I'd get him the kid's vaccine at the earliest opportunity and then follow whatever recommendations come out regarding kids in his situation.

[mongers]

Having to use public transport to visit my elderly mother near the Devon-Cornwall border, not happy with so many people apparently not give a toss for social distancing or mask wearing advice. 

Especially as the infection rate in all the areas I'm in is around 800 cases per 100K, whereas last time I used the trains a bit was in early summer and then rates were a 20th of the current herd immunity free-for-all approach.