Meanwhile in the Labour Party...

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yeah sure, Jeremy "not as bad as Hitler" Corbyn.

It is not germane whether the tories are as bad or worse; the point is that the Labour party was in breach of the equalities legislation.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah sure, Jeremy "not as bad as Hitler" Corbyn.

It is not germane whether the tories are as bad or worse; the point is that the Labour party was in breach of the equalities legislation.

Yes. And the other point is the reason the media were reporting this was because the Jewish Labour Movement and Jewish people in the Labour party were complaining about it for about two years before it became as big a story as it did. So this was building up before it was being widely reported outside of the Jewish press.

Edit: Also actually Starmer's line was if you think antisemitism is a smear or a factional attack then you've no place in the Labour Party.

Edit: And the other point is if the EHRC had found that the Tories were minimising racism against British Asians, in the way Corbyn's leadership office was in this report there would be universal outrage on the left rather than wondering why, say, the Guardian were publishing articles about it.

I also think it's kind of incredible after this type of report - on top of all the other reports - for Corbyn to say it wasn't his leadership but the media (the "fake news" to coin a phrase) that caused the real harm and pain to Jewish people. And it's worth remembering that aides in his team tried to get him to make a speech to the Jewish community to help solve this issue in 2017 when the media started reporting on it - but he never did because he always felt it was personally painful for him to be accused of tolerating racism and that any speech or apology would just encourage more attacks. Which is not exactly great leadership.

[Gups]

Typical Tyr reaction. Labour didn't "struggle" to "tackle" anti-semitism in the party. Quite the opposite. They (by which I mean Corbyn's allies) prevented investigations and stopped suspensions. Corbyn himself is clearly anti-semitic no matter how much he tries to deny it.

Seriously ballsy to suspend Corbyn. We will now see out and out civil war in the Labour party. It sounds like Starmer is OK with that if it gives Labour the chance to become electable again,

[Josquius]

Typical Tyr reaction. Labour didn't "struggle" to "tackle" anti-semitism in the party. Quite the opposite. They (by which I mean Corbyn's allies) prevented investigations and stopped suspensions. Corbyn himself is clearly anti-semitic no matter how much he tries to deny it.

Seriously ballsy to suspend Corbyn. We will now see out and out civil war in the Labour party. It sounds like Starmer is OK with that if it gives Labour the chance to become electable again,

"time and a place Jeremy...." is a typical reaction?
Thanks I guess?

[Gups]

"The Tories are worse" is a typical reaction. Incredibly and shamefully, it's not even true this time.

[Josquius]

"The Tories are worse" is a typical reaction. Incredibly and shamefully, it's not even true this time.

That was Corbyn's reaction.
Its true. Though really not the time to be coming out with it.

[OttoVonBismarck]

As an outside observer, to me there were a number of points where Corbyn could have very easily have made a speech and made it unequivocal that despite past comments showing support for Palestinians, he is not personally anti-Semitic, and that he is a vigorous supporter of Jewish Labour members, the Jewish people more broadly and etc. This sort of mea culpa speech isn't unheard of in politics, and is in some situations almost pro forma, the fact that he kept tippy-toeing around it to me, was strong evidence that his actual views on the Jews is not appropriate--he knows they are not appropriate, so he knew enough to at least suppress them, but those views made it impossible for him to do the sort of standard politician speech where you denounce bigotry and anti-semitism. I suspect like many of his persuasion, both in America and Britain, they simply cannot separate their distaste for Israeli policy on Palestine with the Jewish people more broadly, and that is fundamentally an anti-Semitic viewpoint.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah. I mean for a long time he wouldn't even specifically deal with anti-semitism at all, he'd just say that he condemns "all forms of racism", which I always felt was a bit revealing.

The incident that I think was worst on this was the recording of him, in 2013, where he says Zionists "having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives, they don't understand English irony". I can't think of a non-racist explanation of that line or sentiment - and it's pub bore racism.

[Josquius]

As an outside observer, to me there were a number of points where Corbyn could have very easily have made a speech and made it unequivocal that despite past comments showing support for Palestinians, he is not personally anti-Semitic, and that he is a vigorous supporter of Jewish Labour members, the Jewish people more broadly and etc. This sort of mea culpa speech isn't unheard of in politics, and is in some situations almost pro forma, the fact that he kept tippy-toeing around it to me, was strong evidence that his actual views on the Jews is not appropriate--he knows they are not appropriate, so he knew enough to at least suppress them, but those views made it impossible for him to do the sort of standard politician speech where you denounce bigotry and anti-semitism. I suspect like many of his persuasion, both in America and Britain, they simply cannot separate their distaste for Israeli policy on Palestine with the Jewish people more broadly, and that is fundamentally an anti-Semitic viewpoint.

The trouble with this is there's no clear separation with both sides often muddying the waters.
On the one hand you do have those who are very pro-Palestine/anti-Israel and mix this up with being anti Jewish in general.
But on the other you have those who are very anti-Palestine/Pro-Israel and keen to paint any criticism of Israel as anti-semitism.
There's so much toxicity and bad faith flying around all over the place.
These extremes aren't helped by the number of ignorant people who end up falling into one camp or the other and the very real interplaying issues of Islamophobia and its defenders/opponents.
The whole thing needs putting firmly to rest asap.

[Gups]

As an outside observer, to me there were a number of points where Corbyn could have very easily have made a speech and made it unequivocal that despite past comments showing support for Palestinians, he is not personally anti-Semitic, and that he is a vigorous supporter of Jewish Labour members, the Jewish people more broadly and etc. This sort of mea culpa speech isn't unheard of in politics, and is in some situations almost pro forma, the fact that he kept tippy-toeing around it to me, was strong evidence that his actual views on the Jews is not appropriate--he knows they are not appropriate, so he knew enough to at least suppress them, but those views made it impossible for him to do the sort of standard politician speech where you denounce bigotry and anti-semitism. I suspect like many of his persuasion, both in America and Britain, they simply cannot separate their distaste for Israeli policy on Palestine with the Jewish people more broadly, and that is fundamentally an anti-Semitic viewpoint.

I think that's about 90% accurate. The only part I'd take issue with is the proposition that Corbyn (and this is true of others with similar views too) knows his views are inappropriate. He just can't perceive of himself as racist in any way and theerfore assumes that anyone who questions him has a different agenda.

[garbon]

Corbs should have known Starmer is not here to play.

[Sheilbh]

I know this is very much not the issue, but all the photos/footage of Corbyn today show him with a mask on under his nose which I just don't understand

I see people doing it on the streets and buses (not in building very much so far) and I just want to ask what they think the mask is doing if it just covers their mouth. It's the most baffling thing.

[Richard Hakluyt]

It is a bit like his remain campaigning 

But why is he wearing his mask like that, especially with the paparazzi flocking around him? Using Occam's razor we can only conclude he is a fucking idiot.

[Sheilbh]

But why is he wearing his mask like that, especially with the paparazzi flocking around him? Using Occam's razor we can only conclude he is a fucking idiot.

Yeah. I mean I know his brother is a crank. But I've always thought there is a chance that once he's not in a leadership position Corbyn could go fully in that direction. And it wouldn't entirely shock me if he had theories about covid - especially given that he wears the mask like that, he's over 70 but was always in the Commons even during the first wave when it was virtual and had that dinner party with more people than he was allowed. At best it's just not great visible leadership on this, but part of me wonders if he is maybe going a little bit the way of his brother.

[Josquius]

Interesting point on the mask thing.
The last I heard of Corbyn in the news it was him getting in trouble for a houseparty despite lockdown.
He does strike as the type to get a bit wrapped up with the left wing minority of the covidiots doesn't he...