Meanwhile in the Labour Party...

[Valmy]

It seems a much more optimistic era than today.

The late 90s was also a pretty optimistic era.

[Josquius]

It seems a much more optimistic era than today.

Sure. But thats more reflective of the belief a golden age is just round the corner.
Things weren't actually that great in the day to day.

[Valmy]

Someone knew has announced they're running for Lib Dem leader - and I had genuinely forgotten (a) the Lib Dems exist and (b) are having a leadership contest.

They shall rise again! I mean...probably not if they couldn't take advantage of the current melt down by the two major parties I am not sure what it would take.

But hey it is nice they can pull in 10% or whatever every election. Compared to US third parties they are a political juggernaut.

[Sheilbh]

It seems a much more optimistic era than today.

Sure. But thats more reflective of the belief a golden age is just round the corner.
Things weren't actually that great in the day to day.

I don't think it was optimistic at all. There was a layer and a class of society that were optimistic. Even within that layer I don't know if I'd say it was optimistic in full, the reasons for their optimism were often also undermining certainties in a very uncomfortable way.

But, you know, read your Engels or even certain of the great Victorian novelists - it wasn't an optimistic era.

[dps]

Someone knew has announced they're running for Lib Dem leader - and I had genuinely forgotten (a) the Lib Dems exist and (b) are having a leadership contest.

They shall rise again! I mean...probably not if they couldn't take advantage of the current melt down by the two major parties I am not sure what it would take.

But hey it is nice they can pull in 10% or whatever every election. Compared to US third parties they are a political juggernaut.

Yeah, look at the Libertarian Party in the US, and their performance in 2016.  Both major parties somehow manage to nominate candidates of whom the voters had higher negative than positive views, and the Libertarian candidate, despite being able to get on the ballot everywhere, still doesn't pull in even 5% of the popular vote.  If the Libertarian Party can't do any better than that under the circumstances of 2016, it's hard to see how they ever will.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah - I mean both of our systems are kind of designed to produce those sorts of results though. So with the Lib Dems or Libertarians it isn't enough that you dislike both parties, you also need to be fairly relaxed about who comes to power. In 2019 here a significant chunk of Tory-leaning potential Lib Dem voters looked at the possibility of a Corbyn premiership and voted Tory and the opposite happened for lefty Lib Dems in university towns etc.

Our system isn't about expressing a preference, it's about choosing between two alternative governing parties.

I have voted

[Admiral Yi]

Yup.  It's a tipping point issue.  Or maybe a coordination problem, taking from game theory.  If enough people start to think of Republican as the wasted vote, they will vote Libertarian instead.

[Sheilbh]

The Labour National Executive Council have appointed a new General Secretary, David Evans, who was previously Deputy General Secretary in 1999-2001

The Labour left, in accordance with their traditions, ran about 17 different slates of candidates for the NEC and, unexpectedly, lost control of it when Starmer was elected. And now someone who was last in a similar position in the Blair years is in charge of Labour Party admin (a powerful tool in the intra-party wars).

Now admittedly one of the other main candidates was a guy who'd previously backed Class War (a really unpleasant anarchist group - they try and ruin almost every protest I've ever been on by deciding the best way to participate in a march is to smash up x business ), so the left's still there. But surprisingly weak and divided.

[Sheilbh]

Someone knew has announced they're running for Lib Dem leader - and I had genuinely forgotten (a) the Lib Dems exist and (b) are having a leadership contest.

They shall rise again! I mean...probably not if they couldn't take advantage of the current melt down by the two major parties I am not sure what it would take.

But hey it is nice they can pull in 10% or whatever every election. Compared to US third parties they are a political juggernaut.

Incidentally, Valmy, the Lib Dems have done a review of their performance in the 2019 election. I'm not saying it's damning, but it's a 61 page document and the "The Positives" section lasts three pages, and the review includes the sub-heading "The election: a high speed car crash"

[Valmy]

"The election: a high speed car crash"

Really it kind of sums up the whole party since 2010.

[PJL]

"The election: a high speed car crash"

Really it kind of sums up the whole party since 2010.

They did pretty well in 2017-19 under Vince Cable. In retrospect, he should have stayed on as leader.

[Eddie Teach]

"The election: a high speed car crash"

Really it kind of sums up the whole party since 2010.

I'm really not sure what their natural constituency is. They seem like a place to park your protest vote.

[Valmy]

"The election: a high speed car crash"

Really it kind of sums up the whole party since 2010.

I'm really not sure what their natural constituency is. They seem like a place to park your protest vote.

They are the Liberals, hence why they are called the Liberals...well mellowed with social democratic interventionist stuff. And I think that was the problem. Until 2010 they were the place to park your protest vote. But they did actually have a Liberal agenda and when everybody realized that they got clobbered in 2015. Liberalism is pretty unpopular these days.

They did pretty well in 2017-19 under Vince Cable. In retrospect, he should have stayed on as leader.

If you go by total votes this last election was their best performance since 2010...but under the circumstances it was a disaster, the Brexit/Corbyn stuff should have given them an opening and it just didn't. Also the fact they used to be so strong in Scotland which is now SNP territory is also a huge problem that the party is unlikely to ever overcome.

[Eddie Teach]

Ok, but American liberals would fit fine in Labour.

[Valmy]

Ok, but American liberals would fit fine in Labour.

No way. The Progressives would but not the Liberals. You may not tell unless you spend a lot of time talking to Democrats but those two groups do not exactly get along great these days.