The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump

[The Minsky Moment]

Something like, given the low trust the American public has for institutions like the Supreme Court, do you think Chief Justice Roberts actions here are lowering that trust even further.

No it wasn't that - the question didn't attack Roberts, it attacked the GOP Senators for creating a process that would reflect badly on him:

"At a time when large majorities of Americans have lost faith in government, does the fact that the chief justice is presiding over an impeachment trial in which Republican senators have thus far refused to allow witnesses or evidence contribute to the loss of legitimacy of the chief justice, the Supreme Court, or Constitution?

It's still a stupid and unadvisable question but not as bad as Yi's version would make it sound.

[Tonitrus]

I don't get why the republicans don't want witnesses. They can invite Bolton, who is going to say what he is going to say regardless of whether he is called to testify, and then they can invite people like Hunter Biden and maybe even explore the Hillary angle that Cruz brought up. 

The Republicans don't want witnesses because they know that they'd get nothing from Hunter Biden.  Bringing him in means bringing him in front of Chief Justice Roberts, who isn't going to allow the kinds of fishing expeditions that would be necessary to get HB to say anything of use to the Republicans (even assuming that he has anything that would be of use to them). 

If Bolton isn't under oath, the Republicans can dismiss the truth as "just trying to sell a book."  If he IS under oath, then they would be obliged to consider his testimony when reaching a verdict.

The key to the Republicans escaping this bind is to make sure that the truth remains hidden.  They have to face the voters soon, and an OJ-like acquittal isn't going to sit well with those voters.

All that, and they want to end this quick...letting in witnesses could extend the whole thing another couple weeks.  Even the squishy Republicans know that for better or worse...the quicker this is concluded, the more likely it could be forgotten come election time.  A gamble for sure...but perhaps the lesser of two evils in their calculation. 

[Admiral Yi]

Motion for witnesses defeated 51-49.  Collins and Romney yes.

[crazy canuck]

Have the twitter attacks on them started yet?

[Eddie Teach]

That was probably within the first couple hours of Twitter's existence.

[Razgovory]

I wonder if we accomplished anything useful during this.

[Valmy]

I wonder if we accomplished anything useful during this.

I think so. We performed an investigation and established a record of the President's illegal activities and sanctioned him. Investigating and annoying the executive is, in my mind, a good use of the Congress' time. As a real check to the Presidency it is pretty weak though.

[Oexmelin]

aka, you've demonstrated the emptiness of the Constitution.

[Admiral Yi]

aka, you've demonstrated the emptiness of the Constitution.

The Constitution lays out the process for the impeachment; it doesn't guarantee you'll get the outcome you deserve.

[jimmy olsen]

Seems crazy that they're going to fall on their sword like this for Trump and not even vote for witnesses. The last poll I saw had even 70% of Republicans in favor of witnesses.

That's not falling on the sword.  That's protecting their interests.  Why would they want witnesses?  They don't need more evidence that they need to ignore.

They're going to suffer for this decision in November

I doubt it.

For some reason people act like 2018 never happened

[jimmy olsen]

https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/1223415745935265794

At 11am—I said truth will eventually come out

Little did we know lightning would soon strike

Bolton says he sat with Pres. Trump, Mulvaney, Giuliani, & Cipollone: They talked about letting Ukraine's president know they wanted sham political investigations

Truth will come out

[Razgovory]

Seems crazy that they're going to fall on their sword like this for Trump and not even vote for witnesses. The last poll I saw had even 70% of Republicans in favor of witnesses.

That's not falling on the sword.  That's protecting their interests.  Why would they want witnesses?  They don't need more evidence that they need to ignore.

They're going to suffer for this decision in November

I doubt it.

For some reason people act like 2018 never happened

How many Senator's did the Republicans lose back in 2018?

[jimmy olsen]

Seems crazy that they're going to fall on their sword like this for Trump and not even vote for witnesses. The last poll I saw had even 70% of Republicans in favor of witnesses.

That's not falling on the sword.  That's protecting their interests.  Why would they want witnesses?  They don't need more evidence that they need to ignore.

They're going to suffer for this decision in November

I doubt it.

For some reason people act like 2018 never happened

If all 100 senators were up for a vote they would have lost a bunch, but that isn't how the senate works as you well know. It's all about the geography of the 34 seats up for election and this year the geography favors the Democrats
How many Senator's did the Republicans lose back in 2018?

[Valmy]

Well we'll see if the same dynamics happen in 2020.

But we didn't crush the Republicans in 2018, it was no 2010. We just bloodied their noses a bit. They could easily turn the tables right back in 2020, whereas we still haven't full recovered from the multistate beating we got in 2010.

[Razgovory]

I supported the impeachment, I thought it was important to make a stand.  It was a moral civic duty.  But what happens after that? Trump knows that nothing can touch him.  He can do whatever he wants, and I mean anything.  By acquitting the President the Senate have made themselves complicit.  They overlooked a major abuse of power.  Now they can't stand up to the President and claim whatever he does is wrong because it would mean an admission that they fucked up the impeachment.  Hell, at this point he could start throwing journalists in jail and nobody will stop him.  If the courts demand he releases them he can just ignore them like he ignores house subpoenas.  At this point what can we do?