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The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump

Started by FunkMonk, September 24, 2019, 02:10:43 PM

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Valmy

#600
December 03, 2019, 02:14:44 AM
Yeah that standard is absurdly high, and frankly I am not completely confident that even if the President did indeed state it explicitly that they would then support impeachment.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Richard Hakluyt

#601
December 03, 2019, 02:46:02 AM
I reckon the only way he will be found guilty is if electoral support starts to wither. The question is thus how many republican supporters are sufficiently disgusted with his behaviour to change their vote or not vote?

Malthus

#602
December 03, 2019, 08:38:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 03, 2019, 02:14:44 AM
Yeah that standard is absurdly high, and frankly I am not completely confident that even if the President did indeed state it explicitly that they would then support impeachment.

The ground would then shift to the alternative argument: everyone does it, so it's no big deal.
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

The Minsky Moment

#603
December 03, 2019, 11:18:34 AM
The House Minority Report is an astonishing document; it repeats anti-Ukraine talking points that are part of the Russian information warfare campaign.  The Republican House caucus has allowed itself to serve as an arm of a Russian intelligence operation.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

The Brain

#604
December 03, 2019, 12:44:21 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 03, 2019, 11:18:34 AM
The House Minority Report is an astonishing document; it repeats anti-Ukraine talking points that are part of the Russian information warfare campaign.  The Republican House caucus has allowed itself to serve as an arm of a Russian intelligence operation.

Well they're Republicans aren't they?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

katmai

#606
December 03, 2019, 08:13:09 PM
 :bleeding:
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son

The Minsky Moment

#607
December 04, 2019, 12:53:04 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2019, 06:58:45 PM
Schiff's impeachment report.  Not nearly as entertaining as the Republican report.

No surprise.  Non-fiction is often drier than fiction.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Razgovory

#608
December 04, 2019, 01:27:05 PM
The constitutional scholars are actually interesting to watch.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Brain

#609
December 04, 2019, 03:04:46 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 04, 2019, 01:27:05 PM
The constitutional scholars are actually interesting to watch.

T&A?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

The Minsky Moment

#610
December 04, 2019, 04:01:35 PM
I'm not sure what purpose was served by the GOP in calling Turley.  He admitted that a significant breach of public trust would be impeachable and that a quid pro quo of release of aid in exchange for a investigation of the Bidens would rise to the level of an impeachable offense. 

His argument comes down to that the evidence is not sufficient because it isn't "direct." That's a real head-scratcher, as presumably Prof. Turley knows that in any federal case - civil or criminal - the judge will instruct the jury that they may reach a conclusion entirely on the basis of inferential proof.

As an example, here is the 9th circuit's pattern criminal jury instructions:

QuoteEvidence may be direct or circumstantial. Direct evidence is direct proof of a fact, such as testimony by a witness about what that witness personally saw or heard or did. Circumstantial
evidence is indirect evidence, that is, it is proof of one or more facts from which one can find another fact. You are to consider both direct and circumstantial evidence. Either can be used to prove any fact. The law makes no distinction between the weight to be given to either direct or circumstantial evidence. It is for you to decide how much weight to give to any evidence.

A person may be sentenced for a capital criminal crime and executed based entirely on indirect or circumstantial evidence.  It happens all the time.  It is absurd to suggest that only direct evidence can be used to impeach.

What makes it even more absurd here is that the lack of direct evidence isn't because such evidence doesn't exist, but because the President is actively obstructing the presentation of that evidence.  The House and Senate can draw the reasonable inference that the President is doing that because the evidence would be unfavorable to him.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Barrister

#612
December 04, 2019, 05:09:07 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 04, 2019, 05:07:11 PM
NPR is airing live.

What I don't understand is how Fox News can get away with not broadcasting this stuff live.  I mean sure, have your talking heads be all negative about it, but to just pretend it isn't happening?
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Habbaku

#613
December 04, 2019, 05:10:47 PM
Fox is broadcasting to idiots that won't believe anything the other networks say and don't want to experience the cognitive dissonance that would come about by switching the channel.

So of course they don't have any coverage.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.
-J. R. R. Tolkien

Admiral Yi

#614
December 04, 2019, 05:47:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNpVc7J8kC8

Fox does seem to have presented this 9 minute chunk of Turley's testimony live.
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