The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump

[Admiral Yi]

That's not a great set of facts for Joe.  At the very least he should have been aware of conflict of interest issues.

[The Minsky Moment]

He was aware, the administration was aware, and the issue was raised publicly at the time in the press.  The White House did not believe there was an ethical conflict.  The administration's policy was to push for an investigation of the gas company, which they did.  Shokin was believed to be obstructing that investigation and others.  If Biden had lobbied to protect Shokin, it would look different but in fact he did the opposite.

[Admiral Yi]

He was aware, the administration was aware, and the issue was raised publicly at the time in the press.  The White House did not believe there was an ethical conflict.  The administration's policy was to push for an investigation of the gas company, which they did.  Shokin was believed to be obstructing that investigation and others.  If Biden had lobbied to protect Shokin, it would look different but in fact he did the opposite.

OK.  This still leaves Joe with a son sitting on the board of a company being investigated for corruption, making squillions of dollars. 

[Sheilbh]

Sure which would be disastrous for the Democrats if Joe was the candidate, probably.

But that's separate from a President allegedly using US aid as leverage to get a foreign power to investigate a political rival. They are two separate issues.

[Barrister]

He was aware, the administration was aware, and the issue was raised publicly at the time in the press.  The White House did not believe there was an ethical conflict.  The administration's policy was to push for an investigation of the gas company, which they did.  Shokin was believed to be obstructing that investigation and others.  If Biden had lobbied to protect Shokin, it would look different but in fact he did the opposite.

OK.  This still leaves Joe with a son sitting on the board of a company being investigated for corruption, making squillions of dollars.

Not quite squillions.  He apparently earned up to $50k per month - still rich.

[merithyn]

Sure which would be disastrous for the Democrats if Joe was the candidate, probably.

But that's separate from a President allegedly using US aid as leverage to get a foreign power to investigate a political rival. They are two separate issues.

[Admiral Yi]

Not quite squillions.  He apparently earned up to $50k per month - still rich.

Add in a couple grand under the table and you get to squillions.

[Savonarola]

Let the games begin:

House launches formal impeachment inquiry into Trump

[Savonarola]

I have no idea what impact it will have. Are there people undecided about Trump out there? Is it possible at this point for anybody to change their mind?

The New York Times just ran a human interest article about this.  A lot of Americans aren't that engaged politically or hold positions that don't conform to either party's ideology.  The point the article was trying to make was that the country really isn't that polarized; it's just that the Twitter buffoons get the most attention.  The article went on to say that Trump is such a polarizing figure that something like even 2/3 of people who don't identify with either party hold a strong opinion on Trump.  So 1/3 of the population that don't identify with either party are at least somewhat open minded about Trump.  That's still several million people.

[Valmy]

Yeah but only 50-60% of the population even votes in Presidential elections. Maybe 1/3rd is so politically unengaged they have no strong feelings at all about the President but surely people that unengaged would not voting anyway?

Ah well. I am not really sure what to tell the Democrats at this point so while I am a bit fearful this will probably just open the door to something terrible in the future, if the President did something worthy of impeachment let's move forward. I mean that is what the Congress is Constitutionally supposed to do.

[The Minsky Moment]

The lesson Trump drew from the non-impeachment over Russia is that he is free to dragoon foreign governments into targeting political opponents at home.  If the Democrats passed this time he would not respond by showing greater restraint.

[jimmy olsen]

The point of impeachment isn't to actually remove Trump, it's very unlikely that we will uncover a smoking gun so heinous that 20 GOP senators will vote to convict.

However, there is great value in using the expanded investigatory powers of a formal impeachment inquiry to uncover the various crimes (currently known and unknown) to the nation at large. The more truth that comes out, the better Democrats will do in the election.

[Razgovory]

What a big fucking disaster.  There is no good option.  If Trump isn't removed from office he will continue to do the same thing, and worse others will do it as well.  If he is removed, it will still damage the Republic.  I have no idea how Trump's fanbase will respond.  They're worse than Star Wars fans and Game of Thrones fans put together.

[Eddie Teach]

And almost as bad as Star Wars/Game of Thrones haters.

[Camerus]

Given the number of media misfires in the past few years, I'm not sure it's worth rushing to judgment until we see a bit more evidence of what exactly was said. Not to say that Trump didn't do what he's accused of, only that in the age of Twitter, the media has been known to get ahead of itself. 

I'm looking forward to tomorrow's released transcript.