If/when Russia interferes in 2020 election... are we sure it's to favour Trump?

[crazy canuck]

Also, what makes you think that Russia or Putin is in any way a socialist?

Putin is not a socialist.  But he's not afraid to run under a anti-western banner.

Sanders, even after the fall of communism, has still long supported regimes like Cuba and Venezuela.  And he hasn't exactly taken a hard line against Russia (since he's run almost exclusively on domestic issues).


And wat more could Putin have wanted?  Lifting sanctions.  A "peace deal" in Ukraine that gives him international recognition of his control over Crimea.  Putin has done well with Trump, but Trump has been constrained over what he could do on the Russia file.  Perhaps a less obviously compromised US President could give him that.

Trump has lifted sanctions against Putin's friends
Trump has given Putin a free hand in Ukraine.  Putin won't have to invade now. 

[Berkut]

The idea that getting Trump elected has been anything other than an astounding geopolitical coup for Putin is insane.

No, the US hasn't disbanded in favor of a new Soviet World Order, but the results of Putin's efforts could not have realistically been any better than they have been.

[Solmyr]

Has Putin backed left-wing candidates in Europe?

He has backed a left-wing candidate in South America.

[Grinning_Colossus]

It's all opportunistic given that Putin is, let's say, post-ideological. He mostly supports righties in Europe and whatever stirs the most shit in America. I don't think there's room for leverage with Sanders, though, since he doesn't have shady business dealings abroad.

[DGuller]

It's all opportunistic given that Putin is, let's say, post-ideological. He mostly supports righties in Europe and whatever stirs the most shit in America. I don't think there's room for leverage with Sanders, though, since he doesn't have shady business dealings abroad.

Putin seems to believe in very little, besides the need for Russia to be a world power.  He'll support whoever he needs to support to destabilize the West or bring countries to his sphere.  As it happens, these days it's the far right that can bring explosive instability to Western countries, but he'd probably just as readily support Marxists if that accomplished the same thing.

[DGuller]

The idea that getting Trump elected has been anything other than an astounding geopolitical coup for Putin is insane.

I agree.  I do think we need to accept America's own key role in getting there.  We've been priming ourselves for a far right self-coup for a couple of decades before Putin was ready to act.  He didn't bend us over, we bent ourselves over, Putin was just smart enough to be ready to go when the opening appeared before him.

[Maximus]

Putin seems to believe in very little, besides the need for Russia to be a world power. 

You may know better, but it has seemed to me that Putin is driven by the need to win the war he spent most of his adult life fighting, i.e, the Cold War, and that that is as much about bringing the US down as raising Russia up.

[Maximus]

More generally, I don't think Putin was looking for a puppet in the US. Certainly not an incompetent one. He wanted a loose cannon and Trump is the loosest of cannons.

[The Brain]

Putin seems to believe in very little, besides the need for Russia to be a world power. 

You may know better, but it has seemed to me that Putin is driven by the need to win the war he spent most of his adult life fighting, i.e, the Cold War, and that that is as much about bringing the US down as raising Russia up.

My impression is that Putin has no ideology or agendas beyond personal power. Soviet and later Russian power has been a way to achieve that personal power.

My impression is that Putin is a non-ideological person with enormous thirst for personal power, just like for instance Napoleon and Stalin. Any ideology they claim to support is just a vehicle.

[Legbiter]

Just a thought I've had bouncing around.  You can certainly see the attraction Putin would see in a Trump presidency in 2016.  But you do get the feeling that Puting is perhaps slightly underwhelmed with the response he has seen.  There was no grand re-opening to the West under Trump.  No lifting of sanctions - indeed sanctions have increased.

Yes exactly. If Russia was surreptitiously dictating US foreign policy, then ratcheting up sanctions, withdrawing from the INF treaty, hectoring Merkel about stopping to buy Russian natural gas and increasing American/NATO defense spending looks rather odd for a supposed puppet.

[crazy canuck]

Proof positive that BB developed his "feeling" by viewing some unsavoury right wing social media.

[Legbiter]

Proof positive that BB developed his "feeling" by viewing some unsavoury right wing social media.

He probably saw a Russian meme on his Facebook page and became an unwitting accomplice.

[Razgovory]

Just a thought I've had bouncing around.  You can certainly see the attraction Putin would see in a Trump presidency in 2016.  But you do get the feeling that Puting is perhaps slightly underwhelmed with the response he has seen.  There was no grand re-opening to the West under Trump.  No lifting of sanctions - indeed sanctions have increased.

Yes exactly. If Russia was surreptitiously dictating US foreign policy, then ratcheting up sanctions, withdrawing from the INF treaty, hectoring Merkel about stopping to buy Russian natural gas and increasing American/NATO defense spending looks rather odd for a supposed puppet.

Not particularly.  The sanctions exist despite Trump.  The Russians aren't that keen on the IMF treaty and harassing NATO partners isn't exactly anti-Russia.

[Legbiter]

Not particularly.  The sanctions exist despite Trump.  The Russians aren't that keen on the IMF treaty and harassing NATO partners isn't exactly anti-Russia.

If Germany and the West stop buying Russian gas then they'll have to become a vassal state of China in order to survive.

The US has also repeatedly bombed Russia's Syrian client, killed at least hundreds of Russian mercenaries there and sold weapons to the Ukraine. Right now the US and Russia are seemingly squaring off over Venezuela. If all of the above is insufficient what exactly does a "tough on Russia" position look like to you?

You could even criticize Trump for launching a new Cold War at this point.

[Valmy]

Not particularly.  The sanctions exist despite Trump.  The Russians aren't that keen on the IMF treaty and harassing NATO partners isn't exactly anti-Russia.

If Germany and the West stop buying Russian gas then they'll have to become a vassal state of China in order to survive.

The US has also repeatedly bombed Russia's Syrian client, killed at least hundreds of Russian mercenaries there and sold weapons to the Ukraine. Right now the US and Russia are seemingly squaring off over Venezuela. If all of the above is insufficient what exactly does a "tough on Russia" position look like to you?

You could even criticize Trump for launching a new Cold War at this point.

China is the only other country in the world that produces natural gas?

I think you are missing the point. Trump is good for Russia because of the chaos he creates, not because he would be some kind of dependable friend to Putin. Trump is not a reliable friend to anybody that I can see.