Globalisation

[grumbler]

That was a pretty rude honest thing to say in that context BB. I know that was not your intention.

FTFY   Why are we pretending that Oex is somehow not able to take any heat?

[The Minsky Moment]

I am a snooty ivory tower elitist.

Just embrace it.
Problem is being able to afford to play the role.  Cognac and champagne is pricy these days.  But you can just substitute Calvados and Cava, the ignorant hoi polloi here won't know the difference.

[mongers]

...kind of like when Grumbler tells us that drunk girls should somehow be accountable when they get raped... 

Yep.  Feel like I'm right back in the classroom dealing with the kid who won't read the assignment because reading makes his head hurt, so he just decides for himself what he wants the words to mean.  Thanks for the flashback.

I see you've also been taking the UK ambassador to tusk:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39937822

[Berkut]

I think you've completely missed the point Oex and PDH have been making.

Someone is certainly missing some point somewhere.

The irony is rich in this discussion.  I don't think you'll get very far in getting them to re-examine their "known truths," but it is fun to watch you try.  It's almost like I am in the very classrooms they describe.

Whats interesting is that they are talking about a particular stereotype - the annoying freshman who thinks they know ever so much about a subject they actually know very little about, but is quite convinced of their expertise.

Those people do exist. Lord knows I've had to deal with them.

But they are not new, they are not different, there are no more of them now then there ever was, and honestly, I think it is part of the job of a teacher to know how to

A) Deal with them in the classroom so as to not distract from the rest of the class, and
B) Try to channel their interest and enthusiasm in a constructive manner so that in the act of making sure to handle A, you don't destroy their interest.

And there is another stereotype that exists, and that is, IMO, a hell of a lot more damaging than individual students. The full of themselves professor who is pissed off they have had to lower themselves to teaching a bunch of damn freshman some intro course that is surely not worth their time and beneath their lofty status in the field. And they sure as hell aren't putting up with some punk 18 year old who thinks they know anything about anything. And that is how this comes across to me.

And the annoying freshman? A good teacher can handle them pretty easily, and they are one person who have little power to screw anyone else up if said instructor knows how to handle them.

The self important professor? There is not much that can be done about that guy once he stands up and starts teaching, and they are going to have a negative impact on the experience of the entire classroom.

In sum, my response to bitches about students who think they know more than they do is...."So what? That comes with teaching. You might as well complain about chalk dust or having to have office hours." Managing the classroom is your job.

Wow, are you really trying to suggest PDH just wasn't up to it

Not really. He could just be venting, but perfectly up to dealing with it.

But there are instructors out there who are not up to it, and instructors who have a generally shitty attitude towards their students, and comments like the ones he has made does remind of those professors, which are a lot more problematic than any number of dumbass students.

[Valmy]

That was a pretty rude honest thing to say in that context BB. I know that was not your intention.

FTFY   Why are we pretending that Oex is somehow not able to take any heat?

I am pretending no such thing. I have had many arguments with Oex in the past and he has never reacted in a snobby or contemptuous way. You, on the other hand, do so about 90% of the time.

[crazy canuck]

Clearly, Berkut's enthusiasm for pedagogy needs to be nurtured, and harnessed: look how productive this conversation is! Amazing outcome: PDH is incompetent, and I am a snooty ivory tower elitist.

Oex, love ya man, but you are a snooty ivory tower elitist.

BB, I think you have been spending too much time on anti-intellectual right wing internet sites.

Not really. He could just be venting, but perfectly up to dealing with it.

But there are instructors out there who are not up to it, and instructors who have a generally shitty attitude towards their students, and comments like the ones he has made does remind of those professors, which are a lot more problematic than any number of dumbass students.

Ok, but you are on to a different topic.  PDH's point was that students who come with a false strongly held preconceived view of the subject matter are often reluctant to question their own views as part of the educational experience and in turn that detracts from the learning environment for all.   In my experience that is an entirely accurate assessment.   

[mongers]

Clearly, Berkut's enthusiasm for pedagogy needs to be nurtured, and harnessed: look how productive this conversation is! Amazing outcome: PDH is incompetent, and I am a snooty ivory tower elitist.

Oex, love ya man, but you are a snooty ivory tower elitist.

BB, I think you have been spending too much time on anti-intellectual right wing internet sites.

Heh, don't say that about Languish, it's a forum not a 'site'. 

[Ed Anger]

CurlingSS.org

[Valmy]

Ok, but you are on to a different topic.  PDH's point was that students who come with a false strongly held preconceived view of the subject matter are often reluctant to question their own views as part of the educational experience and in turn that detracts from the learning environment for all.   In my experience that is an entirely accurate assessment.   

Yeah I fundamentally disagree with Berkut's idea that false information is good if it inspires people to be more interested in studying something. I don't see why one couldn't use true information to do the same thing. I think it is very irresponsible to present things that are not true with regards to human history as entertainment. If you need things to be fictional to entertaining then just make fictional things or make your fiction so obviously outrageous that nobody could ever think it could be true like Abraham Lincoln hunting vampires or something.

But that is just me. I hate that stuff because it puts false ideas in my head that I have to unlearn and film and pop culture resonates powerfully so it is not a trivial thing to do.

[crazy canuck]

Clearly, Berkut's enthusiasm for pedagogy needs to be nurtured, and harnessed: look how productive this conversation is! Amazing outcome: PDH is incompetent, and I am a snooty ivory tower elitist.

Oex, love ya man, but you are a snooty ivory tower elitist.

BB, I think you have been spending too much time on anti-intellectual right wing internet sites.

Heh, don't say that about Languish, it's a forum not a 'site'. 

[viper37]

nobody could ever think it could be true like Abraham Lincoln hunting vampires or something.

what?  Have I been fooled again?   

[Valmy]

nobody could ever think it could be true like Abraham Lincoln hunting vampires or something.

what?  Have I been fooled again?   

Wow I didn't think anybody actually saw the movie

[CountDeMoney]

Wow I didn't think anybody actually saw the movie

I couldn't reach the remote.   

[CountDeMoney]

Yeah I fundamentally disagree with Berkut's idea that false information is good if it inspires people to be more interested in studying something.

I watched an interview with Leonard Nimoy, and he was talking about how he had once been on a tour of Cape Canaveral and all these NASA engineers were talking to him about various systems like they expected him to know what they were talking about.  He didn't have a fucking clue what they were saying, but they talked to him like he was a peer, and he politely nodded accordingly. Because he was Spock.
To the end of his life, he was constantly receiving letters and notes from fans telling him that Spock was the reason they went into science, engineering, research.  And I don't think anybody would argue that TOS science would be the best base for an entry into the science fair, but there you are.

[Eddie Teach]

I am a snooty ivory tower elitist.

Just embrace it.
Problem is being able to afford to play the role.  Cognac and champagne is pricy these days.  But you can just substitute Calvados and Cava, the ignorant hoi polloi here won't know the difference.

We know the difference between Manhattan and Brooklyn though.