NCAA Foootball 2017

[MadBurgerMaker]

Remember, there's also problem specifically with this one because the officials supposedly told the Arizona defenders essentially not to play that down. 

[alfred russel]

Remember, there's also problem specifically with this one because the officials supposedly told the Arizona defenders essentially not to play that down.

Allegedly.

But even assuming they did, purdue put themselves in position to win the game on that play. It is a 60 minute game. That is in the rule book. You want the officials to announce, "Purdue, I'm sorry that you are now in a position to win, but we told Arizona what play you would run and you didn't run that, so it was unfair to them, and we are going to replay the down from the original spot."?

[dps]

A fake kneel-down is not unsporting IMO, but telling the officials that you are going to do so in an attempt to use the officials to deceive the other team certainly is.  If it happens, I agree that it should be an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.  (Note that we don't know that Purdue actually told the officials anything in this particular case.) 

[MadBurgerMaker]

Allegedly.

But even assuming they did, purdue put themselves in position to win the game on that play. It is a 60 minute game. That is in the rule book. You want the officials to announce, "Purdue, I'm sorry that you are now in a position to win, but we told Arizona what play you would run and you didn't run that, so it was unfair to them, and we are going to replay the down from the original spot."?

If they told them they were going to kneel (it's specific to this type of play, not any random play) and the officials then told Arizona not to play defense because they were taking a knee, then absolutely yes.  Well, not replay the down, because wat, but the ball is down where the QB took the snap and the clock is running. 

[Admiral Yi]

I agree with Throbby.  It's a quid pro quo.  We'll kneel, so you don't tee off.

Although, does Marino's fake spike fall in the same category?

[katmai]

1-6 in bowl games Baby!

[alfred russel]

If they told them they were going to kneel (it's specific to this type of play, not any random play) and the officials then told Arizona not to play defense because they were taking a knee, then absolutely yes.  Well, not replay the down, because wat, but the ball is down where the QB took the snap and the clock is running.

Who are "they"?

MBM, you are re writing the rule book to fit the way you want things to be. it is a 60 minute game. Players are allowed to play between the whistles to try to win the game. There is no rule against running a trick play out of victory formation. There is nothing saying that if you tell the officials "x", then the qb is down where he takes the snap.

Where does this stop? Suppose events transpired like you suggest. The ref tells the Arizona defensive line to take it easy before the play. A Purdue offensive lineman hears that statement, and correspondingly takes it easy himself. However, a defensive lineman for Arizona ignores the ref's instructions, rushes the QB, who is slow to take a knee, forces a fumble, which is run in for a TD.

Should the ref also say, "the ball is down where the QB took the ball, because I told the defensive line not to play hard"?

Why even go through the mechanics of having a kneel down if by some bizarre interpretation of the rule book it is illegal for anyone to try once one team has someone on it say they are going to kneel down?

[dps]

Is anyone surprised that Dorsey doesn't grasp the concept of sportsmanship?

[MadBurgerMaker]

Who are "they"?

Purdue.  The offense.  The team taking a knee.

MBM, you are re writing the rule book to fit the way you want things to be. it is a 60 minute game. Players are allowed to play between the whistles to try to win the game. There is no rule against running a trick play out of victory formation. There is nothing saying that if you tell the officials "x", then the qb is down where he takes the snap.

This feels like a strange thing to argue about.  If you want to run fakes out of the victory formation, do it at your own peril in the future.  I don't think there should necessarily be a rule against it, although there is something to be said for player safety, because the only reason that works out of a formation like that is due to teams NOT going hard after the QB/ball carrier in that situation.  If, however, you tell an official that you are taking a knee, who then tells the defense not to play that down, then it should be down where you kneel or where the QB takes the snap, regardless of what you do after that. 

Where does this stop? Suppose events transpired like you suggest. The ref tells the Arizona defensive line to take it easy before the play. A Purdue offensive lineman hears that statement, and correspondingly takes it easy himself. However, a defensive lineman for Arizona ignores the ref's instructions, rushes the QB, who is slow to take a knee, forces a fumble, which is run in for a TD.

Yeah, it's a horrific slippery slope with no end in sight.  Stopping the play on the snap in a situation where the O told the officials they were kneeling might just be the end of football as we know it. 

Should the ref also say, "the ball is down where the QB took the ball, because I told the defensive line not to play hard"?

Or just blow the play dead almost immediately, set the ball down behind the original LOS where it was snapped, and make sure the clock is running.  You know, like what happens when a team takes a knee.  This is not hard.

Why even go through the mechanics of having a kneel down if by some bizarre interpretation of the rule book it is illegal for anyone to try once one team has someone on it say they are going to kneel down?

I mean, the easy solution here is to not tell the officials anything and run whatever play you want.  Can't complain when opposing defenses are then going after your players every time you're actually wanting to take a knee though.


E: Northwestern just lost their minds.  Hm he might have actually gotten that, but I doubt they can overturn it.  Crazy decision regardless.  Just punt it.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Wow Northwestern is now burning their timeouts on the two point conversion.  They had three with 37 seconds left.  Not a lot of time, but the timeouts help a lot.  Now they have one.

E:  But hey it works out with NW playing coverage and knocking it down.  Northwestern gonna win the Wildcat Bowl and hit 10 wins this year.  Hey, related to recent conversation:  NW just took a knee. Kentucky didn't wreck their shit.

Rose Bowl excuse me bizarro Cotton Bowl, Ohio State vs USC, is up next. 

LOL at the coin toss.  It didn't flip at all.

[alfred russel]

Is anyone surprised that Dorsey doesn't grasp the concept of sportsmanship?

Haha.

I don't for instance think it is sportsmanlike for a kicker or punter to pretend to get roughed to try to trick the official into throwing a flag. However, that sort of thing happens all the time. I wish it did get flagged as unsportsmanlike, but it doesn't, and for that reason I would disagree with a penalty being suddenly called for flopping in the middle of the game.

There is precedent for this sort of play in football, and it hasn't been penalized as unsportsmanlike. I've also never seen a penalty for telling officials you will run one play but run another (if that even happened).

If you think kneel downs are unnecessary/should just be a formality, I'd be fine with amending the rule book to that effect, but not an officiating crew deciding that in the middle of a game.

[Eddie Teach]

So Purdue recovers the ball just outside fg range(inside with a good kicker) and time to run two plays with a tie score? Then opts to take the knee? Sounds like Arizona deserved to be fooled if they bought that.

[MadBurgerMaker]

So Purdue recovers the ball just outside fg range(inside with a good kicker) and time to run two plays with a tie score? Then opts to take the knee? Sounds like Arizona deserved to be fooled if they bought that.

Their kicker must be an absolute monster.  They were on their own 32. 

E:  USC is turning the ball over a lot.

[Eddie Teach]

Ah, I misread that. 

[MadBurgerMaker]

Ah, I misread that. 

I pictured a Janikowski looking kicker with another Janikowski for a leg.