Would you give up a second Obama term to avoid a Trump presidency?

[Valmy]

I was not disputing that KRonn was "drinking the koolaid". Just pointing out he was hardly the only one. This election cycle has seen Languish jump at more conspiracy theories than any I can recall.

It is a weird time on the internet.

It could be that Trump only admires Putin. That is bad enough in my book.

[LaCroix]

It could be that Trump only admires Putin. That is bad enough in my book.

this is a good position to take. the positions some are taking that trump is literally an agent of putin (willingly or through extortion) is a far worse position. the evidence so far wouldn't even pass preponderance

[derspiess]

Just wanted to know what choice you bulzbies would make.

Very hard to believe you truly thought the outcome was in doubt.

Obama is held in very high regard here.  Trump is held in very low regard here; just wanted to see which outweighed which, plus maybe revisit whether Mitt was as bad as you guys said he was in 2012.

[Berkut]

The issue is not whether you could get Trump indicted. That is not the point.

The danger around a stated enemy of the US having any kind of undue influence over the President of the US is so incredible that the risk is worthy of real concern whether it is a 50% likely or only 10% likely.

Given that it would be trivial for Trump to put those concerns to bed if he actually had no entanglements, the fact that he does not do so, and in fact keeps doing things that make very little sense keeps the concerns alive.

Who would nominate an Exxon exec who has stated that sanctions should be lifted on Russia and has been personally awarded Russian state awards from the ex-KGB dictator of the country to head the State department, for example? That is so obviously a terrible idea that it creates serious concerns.

There is real and credible evidence that Putin has been engaged in an organized and state controlled effort to influence our election, and the elections of many other European states. This isn't even surprising - given Putin's rather obvious geo-political goals over the last two decades, it would be a surprise to find out that he didn't. What is Trump's response to this? He denies it categorically, and the ONLY thing you can get him to say about Russia at all is 100% fawning, positive, man love for how smart Putin is and how much he respects him.

In fact, the ONLY THING Trump has been consistent about throughout this entire election has been his fawning position on Russia.

There is no way any objective observer could look at the total of what we know about the Trump-Russia issue and come away with anything but a sense of alarm. You have to put on the gold colored glasses and nail them to your forehead to see this as anything other than horrifying.

[Valmy]

Obama is held in very high regard here.

Not really. The best I ever said about him was he was ok. He let me down pretty significantly but I was in favor of some of the things he did. The fact he has been almost completely sidelined for the past six years is also a pretty big negative.

But I don't think he was the most evil/incompetent wannabe dictator Presihitler in history so maybe that means 'high regard' in your book?

[LaCroix]

you can have all your points and leave it at "trump really likes russia, and that's horrifying." some are going to these extremes of calling him an agent, and that's where it gets a bit silly given the insufficient evidence

[grumbler]

this is a good position to take. the positions some are taking that trump is literally an agent of putin (willingly or through extortion) is a far worse position. the evidence so far wouldn't even pass preponderance

The fringes of the internet where people are claiming "that trump is literally an agent of putin" are not worried about evidence, any more than the fringes that claimed that Obama was born in Kenya (hello, Mr. Trump!) were.  Luckily, we don't have any of those types here at languish, and so don't need to worry about the "evidence" for such claims.

Did Putin want to see trump ,elected?  Absolutely.  Did he take actions to make that wish come true/  Evidence overwhelmingly says that yes, he did.  That's as far as the evidence takes us.  But the evidence DOES take us that far, no matter how much the heads-in-the-sand types want to deny it.

[Berkut]

Just wanted to know what choice you bulzbies would make.

Very hard to believe you truly thought the outcome was in doubt.

Obama is held in very high regard here.

Only in the same way you see Clinton as being held in very high regard.

If you don't think she is the worse possible candidate ever, then you "hold her in high regard". Plenty of people on Languish are incredibly critical of Obama on a variety of topics.

Not thinking he is a secret Muslim intent on destroying America != "very high regard".

Trump is held in very low regard here; just wanted to see which outweighed which,

This is the basic problem with you - in your mind, Trump should be seen by the left about as bad as the right sees Obama. They are both just undesirable political figures as seen by the other side.

Of course, that is completely false. The hatred of Trump actually has almost nothing to do with his position on the political spectrum, while the hatred of Obama from the right is exactly because of his position, and the fact he is black, of course.

The issue with Trump is not that he is a Republican, it is that he is a narcisstic demagogue appealing to the very worst of the American electorate.

The fact that you are so blind to this that you would actually put up a poll asking if people would put Romeny up for comparison illuminates this perfectly. Romney is disliked by the left because he is a member of the right. Languish leans left, so by and large it doesn't like Romney. But Romney rather obviously falls into the political spectrum in a rational manner. Him winning election is just one side beating the other.

There is no comparison to Trump, which is the side of bigotry, intolerance, ignorance, and hatred beating the side of core western values.

You get shit for cheerleading this because it makes it clear that you aren't so much a core Republican as you are a core populist, and shows that you support not Republican values, but rather the values that Trump actually ran on (and won) - intolerance, ignorance, and gross populism. Your poll is kind of amusing because it perfectly illustrates this, but you didn't even realize it. You really thought people would consider Romney somewhere on the Trump scale, when in fact he isn't at all.

Trump is the perfect example of the concept of the narcissism of small differences. Compared to Trump, the difference between Romney, Obama, Clinton (either of them), Bush (either of them), Kasich, Jeb, etc., etc. is infinitesimal.

lus maybe revisit whether Mitt was as bad as you guys said he was in 2012.

Even back in 2012 nobody on the left thought Romney was even in the ballpark of bad enough that he could be considered as comparable to your hero Trump. It isn't an apples and oranges comparison, it is an apples and and pile of shit comparison.

[LaCroix]

well, yeah. it makes complete sense putin would want to elect trump over hillary

[Berkut]

well, yeah. it makes complete sense putin would want to elect trump over hillary

Is this the part where you tell us about how Hillary wanted to start WW3?

[grumbler]

Obama is held in very high regard here.

That's an interesting claim, and one which says everything about you and nothing about us.

[derspiess]

You get shit for cheerleading this because it makes it clear that you aren't so much a core Republican as you are a core populist, and shows that you support not Republican values, but rather the values that Trump actually ran on (and won) - intolerance, ignorance, and gross populism.

  That was pretty good

[LaCroix]

Is this the part where you tell us about how Hillary wanted to start WW3?

no, but it's a fact that hillary would have been much harsher on russia than trump. trump really hasn't ever said anything about russia, because he (edit - probably) likes russia. trump was having a bad time in the election, so it made sense for putin to try to get him into office. putin weighed the risk and the consequences and figured, hey, why not. hillary is gonna be bad to us either way.

[LaCroix]

don't worry, derspiess, I hold obama in very high regard

[Berkut]

You get shit for cheerleading this because it makes it clear that you aren't so much a core Republican as you are a core populist, and shows that you support not Republican values, but rather the values that Trump actually ran on (and won) - intolerance, ignorance, and gross populism.

  That was pretty good

Keep doubling down.