Westworld Discussion - SPOILERS!

[Admiral Yi]

no. every conversation Dolores had with the black guy was more than thirty years ago (except in the finale), and the black guy then was arnold. check the clothes on the guy dolores has her private talks with--those are arnold's clothes, not bernard's. arnold died before the park opened. will and logan were in the park after it was opened OR in some type of beta phase, but it was definitely after arnold's death. also, will didn't know about arnold until dolores told him.

Will is the weenie and Logan is the douchebag?  And you're saying their whole story line took place in the past??

[Habbaku]

no. every conversation Dolores had with the black guy was more than thirty years ago (except in the finale), and the black guy then was arnold. check the clothes on the guy dolores has her private talks with--those are arnold's clothes, not bernard's. arnold died before the park opened. will and logan were in the park after it was opened OR in some type of beta phase, but it was definitely after arnold's death. also, will didn't know about arnold until dolores told him.

Will is the weenie and Logan is the douchebag?  And you're saying their whole story line took place in the past??

Did you watch the finale? 

[Admiral Yi]

Did you watch the finale? 

What's your favorite color?

[Berkut]

What was the idea behind Will sending Douchebag wanna be brother in law off on the horse naked?

He explained it in that very scene.  Presumably, William's father-in-law-to-be (IE, Douchebag's father and head of the company) was waiting for them back in town.  Seeing his son all trussed up and naked on a horse was supposed to tilt the father towards thinking that Douchebag wasn't in control of himself enough to be in charge of the company.  That would position William to ascend in the future.

Ahhh, I missed the part where dad was back in town waiting.

[Berkut]

Berkut, on the financing question - I thought the show did a pretty good job of explaining this.  There were investors from the start.  William caused is family to be a majority investor after his first visit but the family he married into was already a shareholder.  Ford also makes a few comments about always having to deal with the investors.  I think this is just another time shift issue for Yi because in the early episodes it appears that William and his future brother in law are talking about increasing the family investment in the present rather than soon after the park opened.

Yeah, so much suddenly falls into place one it clicks that all the stuff that happened between Will, Logan, and Dolores happened very early in the parks history.

[HVC]

no. every conversation Dolores had with the black guy was more than thirty years ago (except in the finale), and the black guy then was arnold. check the clothes on the guy dolores has her private talks with--those are arnold's clothes, not bernard's. arnold died before the park opened. will and logan were in the park after it was opened OR in some type of beta phase, but it was definitely after arnold's death. also, will didn't know about arnold until dolores told him.

Will is the weenie and Logan is the douchebag?  And you're saying their whole story line took place in the past??

There are three time lines. Pre-open (where Arnold and Dolores talk in the cell and where he realizes she's attaining consciousness), post opening were will, Logan, and Dolores do their thing, and present where Maeve does her thing and old man will is looking for the maze. It gets confusing at times when Dolores flashes back and forth between all three timeline in quick succession.

[Habbaku]

Did you watch the finale? 

What's your favorite color?

K.

[Berkut]

no. every conversation Dolores had with the black guy was more than thirty years ago (except in the finale), and the black guy then was arnold. check the clothes on the guy dolores has her private talks with--those are arnold's clothes, not bernard's. arnold died before the park opened. will and logan were in the park after it was opened OR in some type of beta phase, but it was definitely after arnold's death. also, will didn't know about arnold until dolores told him.

Will is the weenie and Logan is the douchebag?  And you're saying their whole story line took place in the past??

There are three time lines. Pre-open (where Arnold and Dolores talk in the cell and where he realizes she's attaining consciousness), post opening were will, Logan, and Dolores do their thing, and present where Maeve does her thing and old man will is looking for the maze. It gets confusing at times when Dolores flashes back and forth between all three timeline in quick succession.

There were conversations between Dolores and Bernard though, where Arnold tell Dolores to keep the fact that she was remembering things secret. That clearly had to happen after the park was open and functioning.

Now that we know that Ford, who programmed Bernard was working toward that goal, that actually makes sense. Bernard, all along, was being used as a tool by Ford to work towards his particular take on Arnold's vision.

Man, I want to watch this over again...

[HVC]

True. I think Bernard talks to her in the first few episodes in the bigger facility after the update is released. It's small basement room conversation where it's Arnold talking to Dolores.

[Berkut]

Fuck, the more I think about this the more I am impressed.

One of the things that really annoys me about shows like this is where there is a conundrum introduce, that is then never really resolved, or resolved in a pantently ridiculous manner (BSG, Lost, etc., etc.)

So far, there have been some things that when introduced I thought were kind of silly, but understood at the time that they were taking a little shortcut, but was ok with that - and now I am realizing that it wasn't a shortcut at all, and it actually makes vastly more sense NOW.

Example: When we first saw the Man in Black, it was clear he was on some kind of "quest" to find the center of the maze. Some "storyline" with a deeper meaning, a more profound point to it than the others.

A couple times we see people he runs into tell him "This is not for you!". Now, this is a standard quest trope - the quester is being told to turn back, as what is ahead is not his business. Quester, of course, always ignores this advice.

In this case though, at the time, I thought "That really doesn't make sense. Why create a deeper storyline with some greater truth that you bury so deeply it seems likely that nobody will ever actually experience? After all, the MIB is a special case customer  - he has much more time than any normal customer - and so unless it was made just for him, how does this storyline make any sense at all?"

Well, it turns out that the "this isn't for you" was not a trope at all - it was literally true. Williamn didn't uncover a deeply layered storyline intended for himself, he stumbled on something that truly had nothing to do with him at all. A "storyline" that was never meant for any human. And THAT affected him in a profound manner that I don't think anyone could have predicted, since Arnold and Ford certainly never thought their "maze" would be found or understood by any guest.

[LaCroix]

no. every conversation Dolores had with the black guy was more than thirty years ago (except in the finale), and the black guy then was arnold. check the clothes on the guy dolores has her private talks with--those are arnold's clothes, not bernard's. arnold died before the park opened. will and logan were in the park after it was opened OR in some type of beta phase, but it was definitely after arnold's death. also, will didn't know about arnold until dolores told him.

Will is the weenie and Logan is the douchebag?  And you're saying their whole story line took place in the past??

There are three time lines. Pre-open (where Arnold and Dolores talk in the cell and where he realizes she's attaining consciousness), post opening were will, Logan, and Dolores do their thing, and present where Maeve does her thing and old man will is looking for the maze. It gets confusing at times when Dolores flashes back and forth between all three timeline in quick succession.

There were conversations between Dolores and Bernard though, where Arnold tell Dolores to keep the fact that she was remembering things secret. That clearly had to happen after the park was open and functioning.

Now that we know that Ford, who programmed Bernard was working toward that goal, that actually makes sense. Bernard, all along, was being used as a tool by Ford to work towards his particular take on Arnold's vision.

Man, I want to watch this over again...

I'm not sure what you mean in the first sentence because you say bernard and then arnold. but HVC is right that I do now recall some conversation occurring in the larger room between bernard and dolores pre-final episode. wasn't that a checkup or something? I don't recall the details

dolores started remembering things on three different occasions: (1) with arnold (the conversations they had in that little room), (2) with will & co., and (3) in the present. she remembered things ever since arnold gave her that ability way back with #1. she's been remembering and being rolled back on many different occasions, presumably reaching closer to the truth each time.

[Kleves]

Yeah, so much suddenly falls into place one it clicks that all the stuff that happened between Will, Logan, and Dolores happened very early in the parks history.

One thing that bugged me is that the robots don't seem any different in the storylines that are ~30 years apart. Makes for a better show since the reveal is less obvious, but it seems unlikely the tech hasn't advanced noticeably in that time.

[Berkut]

Yeah, so much suddenly falls into place one it clicks that all the stuff that happened between Will, Logan, and Dolores happened very early in the parks history.

One thing that bugged me is that the robots don't seem any different in the storylines that are ~30 years apart. Makes for a better show since the reveal is less obvious, but it seems unlikely the tech hasn't advanced noticeably in that time.

But they are *radically* different! Their insides are not even remotely similar.

The outsides are not terribly different, but since the hosts are intended to be largely indistinguishable from humans, that should not come as any surprise....

And any hosts who are old enough that their functions cannot be upgraded to maintain the overall level of needed immersion are of course retired...hence the giant storage areas of no longer used hosts...

[Scipio]

Jonah Nolan has always been a very layered dude. He's got a chess player mentality (clearly visible in early efforts like Memento and The Prestige, more subtly so in Person of Interest). I'm excited to see Westworld, finally (got my sister's HBO Go password).

[Josephus]

5. In particular Clitoris isn't even in the presumably accessible main town, but out in the wilds with her new squeeze, but she gets whisked back and forth constantly.

you mean dolores hanging out with lil will and suddenly whisking away to the dark room and speaking with bernard? that's the multi-timelines at play. dolores, hanging with will, never left will. she had memories of her hundreds of conversations with arnold, which all happened before she met will.

hmmm...not so sure.