What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[The Minsky Moment]

There's nothing to get behind.  Pence's only interest seems to be keeping his place on the 2020 Trump ticket, he has put his marker firmly down as sycophant-in-chief. 

It's not uncommon for VPs to struggle to find a substantive role, but even by Veep standards, Pence has stood out for his total uselessness.  His main activities were:

+ Chairing the embarrassing  and now disbanded "voter fraud" commission
+ Heading the revived space policy advisory commission.  The last use of the commission was under Bush 41 as a place to park Dan Quayle.  Pence's main activities were to: (1) announce plans to go to the moon, thus bringing the space program forward to the future of the late 1960s, (2) get photographed touching the stuff under the "do not touch" sign.
+ Attending a Colts game for the express purpose of leaving before it started.

The man is a human paperweight.

[Jacob]

It makes me sad to see Timmy O blatantly cheering for the Democrats.

It makes me sad to see you still cleaving to Trump.

[frunk]

+ Chairing the embarrassing  and now disbanded "voter fraud" commission
+ Heading the revived space policy advisory commission.  The last use of the commission was under Bush 41 as a place to park Dan Quayle.  Pence's main activities were to: (1) announce plans to go to the moon, thus bringing the space program forward to the future of the late 1960s, (2) get photographed touching the stuff under the "do not touch" sign.
+ Attending a Colts game for the express purpose of leaving before it started.

+ Showed up at the Olympics and managed to screw up sitting there and watching things.

[Valmy]

Trump has enabled the Democrats to kick the can down the road of dealing with the left-wing Bernie revolt during the 2016 election. I guess that is good since I was worried my side would lose such a confrontation.

But I worry about the period from 2006-2010 when the Democrats were swept to power by virtue of being not-Bush and suffered from a lack of coherence. Also there was the fact that a large portion of the people who voted for them for being 'not-Bush' were not really pro-Democratic agenda at all. So they revolted shortly afterwards. It seems likely that something similar will happen in the near future, without the Democrats ever dealing with our deep divisions and issues during our time in the political wilderness. I mean even if we do not end up winning we are clearly going to grain a lot of ground soon.

Granted being a party of contradictions and incoherence is the Democrat Way(tm).

[Jacob]

Yeah... I think (hope) that the Democrats will sweep into power soon and at least reverse some of the damage done by Trump to US institutions and governance.

I expect, however, that they'll fray pretty quickly once (if) they're in with so many competing agendas joining forces in response to Trump. At that point, it the important question is what the Republicans have become.

... assuming, of course, that Trump isn't the beginning of long term Republican dominance.

[Barrister]

It makes me sad to see Timmy O blatantly cheering for the Democrats.

It makes me sad to see you still cleaving to Trump.

I don't understand you here.  On what possible basis can it be said that I stick with Trump?  I've bad-mouthed the man constantly.

But what I won't do is abandon my conservative principles just because others who have purported to be conservatives have betrayed that ideology by standing up with Trump.

[garbon]

So you are supporting Republicans in theory though there are few Republican govt officials who actually live by conservative principles?

[Admiral Yi]

Yup.  Supporting the current incarnation of Republicans is not supporting any conservative ideals (at least not any worth subscribing to).

[Barrister]

So you are supporting Republicans in theory though there are few Republican govt officials who actually live by conservative principles?

Yes.

I mean, as a foreign citizen my "supporting" doesn't amount to anything, but yes I still identify with the GOP as being closest to my own values.  That doesn't mean in specific races I wouldn't prefer a Democrat to win (if I had a vote in 2016 I'm on record it would have been for Hillary), but that certainly doesn't mean I identify with the Democratic Party in any way.

[Berkut]

Party is clearly more important than principle.

What I find funny is that people pretend like they are standing on principle, when the principle is actually "Conservative values", which is not a principle at all - it is an identification with a party, especially given that whatever ACTUAL principles Beebs might imagine is meant by "conservative", the Republican Party no more represents them than the Dems.

And if those "principles" are actually things like respect for western democratic ideals in a general sense, it is no contest - the Dems, right now, are far, far, FAR more closely aligned with them than the shitshow semi-fascist demagague worshipping Republicans.

[Admiral Yi]

Yes.

I mean, as a foreign citizen my "supporting" doesn't amount to anything, but yes I still identify with the GOP as being closest to my own values.  That doesn't mean in specific races I wouldn't prefer a Democrat to win (if I had a vote in 2016 I'm on record it would have been for Hillary), but that certainly doesn't mean I identify with the Democratic Party in any way.

You would prefer Democrats to win races, but you're sad that Timmy is supporting Democrats.

Consistent not very counselor.

[Barrister]

Party is clearly more important than principle.

What I find funny is that people pretend like they are standing on principle, when the principle is actually "Conservative values", which is not a principle at all - it is an identification with a party, especially given that whatever ACTUAL principles Beebs might imagine is meant by "conservative", the Republican Party no more represents them than the Dems.

And if those "principles" are actually things like respect for western democratic ideals in a general sense, it is no contest - the Dems, right now, are far, far, FAR more closely aligned with them than the shitshow semi-fascist demagague worshipping Republicans.

What we have now is one party that pays lip service to conservative values, but another party that actively disavows such values.

What else would you have me do?

[frunk]

What we have now is one party that pays lip service to conservative values, but another party that actively disavows such values.

What else would you have me do?

I think it depends on what you mean by conservative values.  If by conservative values you mean preserving existing institutions then there is no question that the Democrats are your party in both word and deed.  If by conservative values you mean revert to a previous society that never actually existed then you want the Republicans.

[Jacob]

I don't understand you here.  On what possible basis can it be said that I stick with Trump?  I've bad-mouthed the man constantly.

But what I won't do is abandon my conservative principles just because others who have purported to be conservatives have betrayed that ideology by standing up with Trump.

Badmouthing the man but encouraging people to build and support his base of power = cleaving to Trump

[Jacob]

What we have now is one party that pays lip service to conservative values, but another party that actively disavows such values.

What else would you have me do?

Reluctantly support the Democrats until the GOP have a not incompetent morally bankrupt leader, and the party establishment does not support and enable him. The moment the GOP has reasonable leadership, go back home.