What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[CountDeMoney]

I'd rather pay the premiums than pay a penalty on my taxes.

I don't know why; the penalty would've been a lot cheaper.  Or is that because you're being a principled cunt?

Luckily you're not going to have to worry about that anymore, so you and your family are free to pursue a life of spiritual fulfillment, pertussis, and MMR.

[Eddie Teach]

I'd rather pay the premiums than pay a penalty on my taxes.

Luckily you're not going to have to worry about that anymore, so you and your family are free to pursue a life of spiritual fulfillment, pertussis, and MMR.

They're 0/3 right now. He may have to pay for health care a while longer.

[alfred russel]

They're 0/3 right now. He may have to pay for health care a while longer.

Maybe when trump said we would be winning so much we would be tired of winning, he meant that we would be winning by stopping his dumbass agenda?

[The Minsky Moment]

My health insurance premium for the past year has been about $600 more than our mortgage.  And people wonder why I'm against Obamacare.

He's not charging those premiums; your for-profit, we-know-you-need-this-so-we-are-going-to-price-gouge-you insurance company is.

You don't like it, get rid of it. I only keep mine as I don't want to give derniggerhater the pleasure of dying just yet.

I think I mentioned it before, but I left my (unsubsidized) group health plan for an unsubsidized ACA plan -- my premiums fell around 1/3, my copays and deductibles went down, and reimbursement was more reliable.  The ACA plan was Pareto superior.  I think people have problems with ACA because:

1) People may not be exposed to the true cost of insurance, because e.g., employer based plans often subsidize costs.  If the employer subsidy changes, the cost to the employee may change even if the cost of the insurance doesn't
2) ACA only works effectively if the state cooperates. If the state obstructs, insurers either won't participate or will do so reluctantly and costs go up.
3) Health insurance is very expensive in absolute terms and health care costs tend to rise faster than inflation.  ACA doesn't really do anything to remedy that - it just provides subsidies for those who meet the income guidelines.  On the flip side getting rid of ACA doesn't help that problem either.
4) Most ACA plans tend to be restricted network plans with limited or no out of network options - hence the "I can't see my doctor" complaints.  That speaks more to the FUBAR nature of our system of health insurance in general.  Obviously, the broader the network or more extensive out of network benefit the higher the cost.  It's all a tradeoff as long as you are committed to a system of health provision based on private insurance companies.

[The Minsky Moment]

Bottom line is that the real flaw in the US system is the total reliance on private insurance companies and the fact that the core of the system is employer provided insurance incentivized by the tax system.  Given those constraints it's very difficult to come up with something that provides quality coverage at reasonable cost to most of the population without digging deep into the public fisc.

[Iormlund]

4) Most ACA plans tend to be restricted network plans with limited or no out of network options - hence the "I can't see my doctor" complaints.  That speaks more to the FUBAR nature of our system of health insurance in general.  Obviously, the broader the network or more extensive out of network benefit the higher the cost.  It's all a tradeoff as long as you are committed to a system of health provision based on private insurance companies.

Is it really?

Maybe I got lucky, but my German health provider had no issue with me choosing whotever doctor I wanted. All I did was google the local Association website to find specialists and make a phonecall to the doctor's office. Two days later I had an appointment. I handed my Krankenkasse card to a nice lady and that was it. The only cash I paid while I was there was the €10 co-pay for the medication at the pharmacy (which in the US probably costs a thousand dollars a pop).

[Malthus]

It is puzzling how the US managed to get a medical insurance system that, apparently, has few advantages over any comparable system anywhere else.

[garbon]

It is puzzling how the US managed to get a medical insurance system that, apparently, has few advantages over any comparable system anywhere else.

I can get doctor's appointments quicker in the US than I can on the NHS. I'm going to be about 4 appts deep by the time the NHS decides to give me high blood pressure medication.

[Barrister]

It is puzzling how the US managed to get a medical insurance system that, apparently, has few advantages over any comparable system anywhere else.

I thought the "advantage" was that if you have means, the US system is the top medical system in the world hands down.  There's a reason you get many Canadians travelling to the US to get surgeries or procedures that they would have to wait many months for in Canada - if the procedure is even available in Canada.

[Berkut]

It is puzzling how the US managed to get a medical insurance system that, apparently, has few advantages over any comparable system anywhere else.

It has HUGE advantages over most other systems. Very few are as effective at generating money for a gigantic layer of useless middle managers and profit takers that don't actually provide any health care for anyone.

[Zoupa]

Define "many" Canadians, Barrister.

[Barrister]

Define "many" Canadians, Barrister.

63,000 in 2016.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/63-000-canadians-left-the-country-for-medical-treatment-last-year-fraser-institute-1.3486635

[garbon]

So less than 0.2%?

[garbon]

Also as that says that's just based on a survey of physicians guess about their patients.

[HVC]

Define "many" Canadians, Barrister.

63,000 in 2016.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/63-000-canadians-left-the-country-for-medical-treatment-last-year-fraser-institute-1.3486635

The think-tank says that's a nearly 40-per-cent increase over the previous year, and may be related to long wait times for medical procedures in Canada. But one professor warns the data is based only on estimates, making it highly questionable

but like garbon said, it'd be nice to know what percentage that is of people actually seeking medical treatment.