Daily Mail: Putin's new 'super tank' leaves West totally outgunned

[Berkut]

On tanks specifically, I am sure the tank is not obsolete. The massive MBT might be, but we will not know.

When it is so much easier to take a tank out no matter what protection it employs, maybe in WW3, countries will return to designs like the Sherman and the T-34, as opposed to doing a Tiger-like approach. So, decent, good designs, but with the priority of striking a compromise between survivability, combat power, and cost of production.

Kind of like the way how after a while cavalry just accepted there is no way they can put enough armor on to protect from firearms, and scaled back on the whole knights in shining armor thing.

Yep, I very much agree Tamas.

Once it is clear that more armor doesn't help, the logical conclusion is to scale back to very little armor - just enough to stop general purpose weapons, rather than weapons specifically designed to combat your particular weapon system.

What is interesting is how that would actually play out though. Certainly smaller, lighter vehicles one would presume?

While it doesn't seem particularly hard to imagine that the MBT is just too vulnerable, it is hard to imagine what replaces it...Smaller tanks? Not tanks at all? Something else entirely?

[Brazen]

Survivability is a movable feast. No sooner had they put on V-hulls for IEDs and sidebars for RPGs, they found the roofs were vulnerable from building-launched attacks in urban combat. You can't just add more armour, because agility is just as important a part of survivability. So modular armour has become popular, but you still have to know what you're facing before you set out. Like police officers choosing between stab-proof and bullet-proof vests.

Smaller, lighter vehicles have mainly become popular for urban combat and navigating deserts. But neither of those may be a focus of future land combat. Speaking to manufacturers at a recent defence fair, they said they were seeing a distinct trend away from smaller armoured vehicles and back to tanks. And certain nations that had been tight with their armoured vehicle purse strings recently were shelling out again. No pun intended.

[CountDeMoney]

Well, it's refreshing to see that not everyone has lost their minds and gone all Incan torpedo boat.

[Habbaku]

While it doesn't seem particularly hard to imagine that the MBT is just too vulnerable, it is hard to imagine what replaces it...Smaller tanks? Not tanks at all? Something else entirely?

[Syt]

[Malthus]

Ah yes, the unstoppable behemoth.*

*Until it meets the first bridge. 

[Syt]

*Until it meets the first bridge. 

That's why you design it to operate as submersible, too. The Cliffs of Dover might be tricky, though. 

[The Brain]

Have you seen what WWI level artillery did? Modern body armor would not be all that effective even back then, and I'm not even sure armored vehicles would be especially safe, though against modern artillery I'm certain they wouldn't be.

Take a picture of a modern infantry man on patrol vs. one in WWI, and the difference isn't so dramatic. At least compared to the actual cannons used in WWI vs. the Paladin.

I don't think all artillery casualties in WWI were caused by direct hits.

Think again. Why do you think they introduced steel helmets?

I'm presuming that this is a joke since it implies that a soldier's steel helmet would protect him against a direct hit by artillery.

Thank you.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

*Until it meets the first bridge. 

That's why you design it to operate as submersible, too. The Cliffs of Dover might be tricky, though. 

then it goes into its (adolf hitler) mecha-form

[Hamilcar]

What is interesting is how that would actually play out though. Certainly smaller, lightervehicles one would presume?

While it doesn't seem particularly hard to imagine that the MBT is just too vulnerable, it is hard to imagine what replaces it...Smaller tanks? Not tanks at all? Something else entirely?

Mecha. Piloted by depressed 14 year old Japanese.

[garbon]

What is interesting is how that would actually play out though. Certainly smaller, lightervehicles one would presume?

While it doesn't seem particularly hard to imagine that the MBT is just too vulnerable, it is hard to imagine what replaces it...Smaller tanks? Not tanks at all? Something else entirely?

Mecha. Piloted by depressed 14 year old Japanese.

Was there a joke in there somewhere screaming to get out?

[alfred russel]

Artillery was effective in WWI. Artillery has gotten better since then; infantry defenses not as much.

Except for body armor, motorized armored vehicles, and counter-battery radars.

Have you seen what WWI level artillery did? Modern body armor would not be all that effective even back then, and I'm not even sure armored vehicles would be especially safe, though against modern artillery I'm certain they wouldn't be.

Take a picture of a modern infantry man on patrol vs. one in WWI, and the difference isn't so dramatic. At least compared to the actual cannons used in WWI vs. the Paladin.

This is like comparing the bit of lead at the end of an arrow with the bit of lead that comes out of a modern assault rifle, and saying "Meh, they are basically the same thing..."

That is one of the worst analogies in languish history, and that is saying a lot.

It is similar to comparing the Springfield rifle used by the US in WWI and the M16. The M16 is clearly better, but is the advance as dramatic as the advance between WWI artillery and the artillery deployed today? I'm arguing no.

[derspiess]

So how many Russian "super weapons" have we in the West duped ourselves into fearing?  And what was the first one?  MiG-25?

[Jacob]

So how many Russian "super weapons" have we in the West duped ourselves into fearing?  And what was the first one?  MiG-25?

From what I understand of this there's nothing particularly revolutionary about this tank. They've updated a bit of technology, made some give-and-take design decisions, and are touting this as the next new revolutionary thing when it at best is incremental.

The hole unmanned turret/ auto loader thing is - from what I understand form a few (online) conversations with tankers - good in some ways, bad in others and neither unprecedented nor revolutionary.

So yeah, I'm thinking "super weapon" is just Russian propaganda bought by whoever has an interest in buying it.

[grumbler]

So yeah, I'm thinking "super weapon" is just Russian propaganda bought by whoever has an interest in buying it.

Well, we are talking about Hami quoting the Fail concerning the Russians, so, yeah, the shit is piled at least three layers deep.