Your Papers, Please: The Voter Fraud MEGATHREAD

[Razgovory]

Your historical precedent was as you said "the old Chicago joke".  You also quoted a number of dead people on the voter rolls without backing it up when questioned.

Your demonstrated "ease" of committing fraud seems rather difficult to do in practice.  Besides the significant amount of research that is required,  the government has some mechanism to remove dead voters from the roles, so presumably the speculative fraud ring would sometimes cast invalid ballots that would be investigated resulting in the fraudsters being discovered.

So why did you ask me for my reasons again when you already knew them?

I thought maybe they got better, or you had a source for the 10 million dead voters on the rolls.

[LaCroix]

I think the reason dead voters was more prevalent back in the day is because it was much easier to do without getting caught. these days, there's way more flows of information than fifty years ago. that shit is just harder to pull off now without people talking about it. I don't think people got moral about rigging elections. it's just harder to make it work to the same extent. (and, to be fair to raz, 10 million dead voters does seem like a pretty unrealistic number even in the 1800s/way early 1900s. that's like 10-20% of the US population.)

[Eddie Teach]

garbon's on the So Fly List.

With Mono.

[viper37]

The election could be rigged

In some dozen states, the electronic voting machine leave no paper trail, nothing to audit.  So if a participant claims there is voter's fraud, in say Pennsylvania, it will be impossible to prove or disprove the fraud.

In 58 of the state's 67 counties, including those comprising its two largest cities -- Philadelphia and Pittsburgh -- once a vote is cast, it exists only in electronic format. That means if the election is close -- and Clinton fails to sweep the state by a landslide margin -- Trump's claim that the system is "rigged" will be virtually impossible to disprove.

This was all brought up before with the 2004 election--how Diebold paperless voting machines could be fucked with using Microsoft Access on YouTube, just when the President and CEO of Diebold promised at an RNC fundraiser to "deliver Ohio" for Bush.

But all that was blown off as ZOMG URAPARANOID LEFTY crazy talk. Nobody gave a shit then, nobody should be giving a shit now. So I don't want to hear a single goddamned motherfucking thing about rigged fucking elections.

the article is not about the possibility of fraud.  They do say it's very improbable there would be a fraud on these machines.  What they say is, if someone claims there's a fraud, because a candidate won by a narrow margin, there is no way to prove or disprove the fraud.  And that could get messy with a bunch of die hard Trumpers.

[garbon]

Incidentally I've been without photo ID for over a year, I lost my driving license; today I found it in a box of old vinyl. 

Did I miss or need it during that time, no. And I voted in the general election and referendum. 

I would be screwed without an ID when grocery store cards me. Also, not flying for a year? Yuck.

Still pertending you only look 19-20 I see. 

I definitely don't asked to be carded and nor do I think I look under 25. Maybe it is a gimmick here to try and make people feel better?

[celedhring]

I was in my early 30s when I lived in the US, and I got carded all the time. It was quite puzzling tbf.

[Berkut]

I still get carded, and I am in my 40s now.

There are plenty of places who simply card everyone, no matter what.

[The Brain]

There are plenty of places who simply card everyone, no matter what.

Not in Sweden.

[garbon]

garbon's on the So Fly List.

With Mono.

I was thinking about it and I think I've flown somewhere at least once most of years of my life from the age of 10. When my family moved to Mass when I was 10, that started up our yearly pilgrimage to California. And while I attended college in California, I know I went home for summer in '04 then lived in Chicago in '06*. Looked at maybe '05 or '08 as years I might not have flown (as was in SF and couldn't think of trips) but in both instances I visited my immediately family on the East Coast.

So yeah, no time in the last two decades without at least one plane flight per year (and I recall at least 4 separate years before 10 where I flew on a plane).

*10 years since I saw Meri and Max!

[dps]

Are conspiracies invariably revealed once they reach a certain size?  Or does some percentage of conspiracies always reveal themselves?

Material can mean as little as 2,000 votes, the difference in Florida in 2000.

especially in the modern era with social media, wikileaks-type organizations, etc.? yes, I'd say all conspiracies are revealed once they reach a certain size.

"material" is way more than 2,000, because the fact 2,000 happened to be enough to swing a state in one election doesn't mean, realistically, it's enough to swing a state in other elections.

The thing is, you don't need 2000 conspirators to get 2000 fraudulent votes.  I'd say half a dozen to a dozen people who actually know the voting system in use in a particular state could probably fabricate considerably more votes than that under the right circumstances.

I guess I should point out that a lot of what I know about voting fraud I told off the record by people who were involved in election campaigns in WV back in the late 70s and 80s.  And during that time, WV was still basically a 1-party Democratic state, where the real election was the primary.  Ballot stuffing in a general election would have been a bit dicey, because by law both major parties had voting officials in each polling place.  But since officials from one party weren't observing voting in the other party's primary, ballot stuffing in a primary election would have relatively easy to pull off.