Your Papers, Please: The Voter Fraud MEGATHREAD

[CountDeMoney]

The election could be rigged

In some dozen states, the electronic voting machine leave no paper trail, nothing to audit.  So if a participant claims there is voter's fraud, in say Pennsylvania, it will be impossible to prove or disprove the fraud.

In 58 of the state's 67 counties, including those comprising its two largest cities -- Philadelphia and Pittsburgh -- once a vote is cast, it exists only in electronic format. That means if the election is close -- and Clinton fails to sweep the state by a landslide margin -- Trump's claim that the system is "rigged" will be virtually impossible to disprove.

This was all brought up before with the 2004 election--how Diebold paperless voting machines could be fucked with using Microsoft Access on YouTube, just when the President and CEO of Diebold promised at an RNC fundraiser to "deliver Ohio" for Bush.

But all that was blown off as ZOMG URAPARANOID LEFTY crazy talk. Nobody gave a shit then, nobody should be giving a shit now. So I don't want to hear a single goddamned motherfucking thing about rigged fucking elections.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't believe in "strike as unresponsive" because experts have argued that looks weak in front of a jury

Are conspiracies invariably revealed once they reach a certain size?  Or does some percentage of conspiracies always reveal themselves?

Material can mean as little as 2,000 votes, the difference in Florida in 2000.

[Razgovory]

Yi, is there any particular reason to think there is this conspiracy to commit voter fraud?

[Hamilcar]

The States do issue IDs, they are just difficult to get for some people and cost money. Hence the problem.

What's the level of difficulty and cost point?

[Admiral Yi]

Yi, is there any particular reason to think there is this conspiracy to commit voter fraud?

My original position was that I am not as confident as some other posters that the volume of voting fraud is negligible.  I already mentioned as my reasons ease, historical precedent, and a lack of a systematic detection protocol.  Motive I think is self-evident.

[garbon]

The States do issue IDs, they are just difficult to get for some people and cost money. Hence the problem.

What's the level of difficulty and cost point?

[Razgovory]

Yi, is there any particular reason to think there is this conspiracy to commit voter fraud?

My original position was that I am not as confident as some other posters that the volume of voting fraud is negligible.  I already mentioned as my reasons ease, historical precedent, and a lack of a systematic detection protocol.  Motive I think is self-evident.

Your historical precedent was as you said "the old Chicago joke".  You also quoted a number of dead people on the voter rolls without backing it up when questioned.

Your demonstrated "ease" of committing fraud seems rather difficult to do in practice.  Besides the significant amount of research that is required,  the government has some mechanism to remove dead voters from the roles, so presumably the speculative fraud ring would sometimes cast invalid ballots that would be investigated resulting in the fraudsters being discovered.

[Admiral Yi]

Your historical precedent was as you said "the old Chicago joke".  You also quoted a number of dead people on the voter rolls without backing it up when questioned.

Your demonstrated "ease" of committing fraud seems rather difficult to do in practice.  Besides the significant amount of research that is required,  the government has some mechanism to remove dead voters from the roles, so presumably the speculative fraud ring would sometimes cast invalid ballots that would be investigated resulting in the fraudsters being discovered.

So why did you ask me for my reasons again when you already knew them?

[Valmy]

The States do issue IDs, they are just difficult to get for some people and cost money. Hence the problem.

What's the level of difficulty and cost point?

Cost is relatively small but you have to realize we have a very ugly history of poll taxes being used as a form of racial vote suppression so it looks really bad to tie that to voting rights.

The level of difficulty can be insurmountable to some people depending upon when and where they were born. Or it could be no problem at all. That is another issue.

[mongers]

Incidentally I've been without photo ID for over a year, I lost my driving license; today I found it in a box of old vinyl. 

Did I miss or need it during that time, no. And I voted in the general election and referendum. 

[garbon]

Incidentally I've been without photo ID for over a year, I lost my driving license; today I found it in a box of old vinyl. 

Did I miss or need it during that time, no. And I voted in the general election and referendum. 

I would be screwed without an ID when grocery store cards me. Also, not flying for a year? Yuck.

[CountDeMoney]

garbon's on the So Fly List.

[Admiral Yi]

garbon's on the So Fly List.

[mongers]

Incidentally I've been without photo ID for over a year, I lost my driving license; today I found it in a box of old vinyl. 

Did I miss or need it during that time, no. And I voted in the general election and referendum. 

I would be screwed without an ID when grocery store cards me. Also, not flying for a year? Yuck.

Still pertending you only look 19-20 I see. 

[LaCroix]

Are conspiracies invariably revealed once they reach a certain size?  Or does some percentage of conspiracies always reveal themselves?

Material can mean as little as 2,000 votes, the difference in Florida in 2000.

especially in the modern era with social media, wikileaks-type organizations, etc.? yes, I'd say all conspiracies are revealed once they reach a certain size.

"material" is way more than 2,000, because the fact 2,000 happened to be enough to swing a state in one election doesn't mean, realistically, it's enough to swing a state in other elections.