Your Papers, Please: The Voter Fraud MEGATHREAD

Started by CountDeMoney, October 23, 2016, 07:06:02 AM

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CountDeMoney

Quote from: viper37 on October 25, 2016, 08:34:59 AM
The election could be rigged

In some dozen states, the electronic voting machine leave no paper trail, nothing to audit.  So if a participant claims there is voter's fraud, in say Pennsylvania, it will be impossible to prove or disprove the fraud.

QuoteIn 58 of the state's 67 counties, including those comprising its two largest cities -- Philadelphia and Pittsburgh -- once a vote is cast, it exists only in electronic format. That means if the election is close -- and Clinton fails to sweep the state by a landslide margin -- Trump's claim that the system is "rigged" will be virtually impossible to disprove.

This was all brought up before with the 2004 election--how Diebold paperless voting machines could be fucked with using Microsoft Access on YouTube, just when the President and CEO of Diebold promised at an RNC fundraiser to "deliver Ohio" for Bush.

But all that was blown off as ZOMG URAPARANOID LEFTY crazy talk. Nobody gave a shit then, nobody should be giving a shit now. So I don't want to hear a single goddamned motherfucking thing about rigged fucking elections.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: LaCroix on October 25, 2016, 08:19:21 AM
I don't believe in "strike as unresponsive" because experts have argued that looks weak in front of a jury :P

Are conspiracies invariably revealed once they reach a certain size?  Or does some percentage of conspiracies always reveal themselves?

Material can mean as little as 2,000 votes, the difference in Florida in 2000.

Razgovory

Yi, is there any particular reason to think there is this conspiracy to commit voter fraud?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Hamilcar

Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 08:15:34 AM
The States do issue IDs, they are just difficult to get for some people and cost money. Hence the problem.

What's the level of difficulty and cost point?

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Razgovory on October 25, 2016, 05:03:06 PM
Yi, is there any particular reason to think there is this conspiracy to commit voter fraud?

My original position was that I am not as confident as some other posters that the volume of voting fraud is negligible.  I already mentioned as my reasons ease, historical precedent, and a lack of a systematic detection protocol.  Motive I think is self-evident.


garbon

Quote from: Hamilcar on October 25, 2016, 05:17:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 08:15:34 AM
The States do issue IDs, they are just difficult to get for some people and cost money. Hence the problem.

What's the level of difficulty and cost point?

:rolleyes:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 25, 2016, 05:20:22 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 25, 2016, 05:03:06 PM
Yi, is there any particular reason to think there is this conspiracy to commit voter fraud?

My original position was that I am not as confident as some other posters that the volume of voting fraud is negligible.  I already mentioned as my reasons ease, historical precedent, and a lack of a systematic detection protocol.  Motive I think is self-evident.

Your historical precedent was as you said "the old Chicago joke".  You also quoted a number of dead people on the voter rolls without backing it up when questioned.

Your demonstrated "ease" of committing fraud seems rather difficult to do in practice.  Besides the significant amount of research that is required,  the government has some mechanism to remove dead voters from the roles, so presumably the speculative fraud ring would sometimes cast invalid ballots that would be investigated resulting in the fraudsters being discovered.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Razgovory on October 25, 2016, 05:38:49 PM
Your historical precedent was as you said "the old Chicago joke".  You also quoted a number of dead people on the voter rolls without backing it up when questioned.

Your demonstrated "ease" of committing fraud seems rather difficult to do in practice.  Besides the significant amount of research that is required,  the government has some mechanism to remove dead voters from the roles, so presumably the speculative fraud ring would sometimes cast invalid ballots that would be investigated resulting in the fraudsters being discovered.

So why did you ask me for my reasons again when you already knew them?

Valmy

Quote from: Hamilcar on October 25, 2016, 05:17:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 25, 2016, 08:15:34 AM
The States do issue IDs, they are just difficult to get for some people and cost money. Hence the problem.

What's the level of difficulty and cost point?

Cost is relatively small but you have to realize we have a very ugly history of poll taxes being used as a form of racial vote suppression so it looks really bad to tie that to voting rights.

The level of difficulty can be insurmountable to some people depending upon when and where they were born. Or it could be no problem at all. That is another issue.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

mongers

Incidentally I've been without photo ID for over a year, I lost my driving license; today I found it in a box of old vinyl.  :)

Did I miss or need it during that time, no. And I voted in the general election and referendum.  :cool:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

garbon

Quote from: mongers on October 25, 2016, 06:37:08 PM
Incidentally I've been without photo ID for over a year, I lost my driving license; today I found it in a box of old vinyl.  :)

Did I miss or need it during that time, no. And I voted in the general election and referendum.  :cool:

I would be screwed without an ID when grocery store cards me. Also, not flying for a year? Yuck.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

CountDeMoney



mongers

#73
Quote from: garbon on October 25, 2016, 06:51:48 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 25, 2016, 06:37:08 PM
Incidentally I've been without photo ID for over a year, I lost my driving license; today I found it in a box of old vinyl.  :)

Did I miss or need it during that time, no. And I voted in the general election and referendum.  :cool:

I would be screwed without an ID when grocery store cards me. Also, not flying for a year? Yuck.

Still pertending you only look 19-20 I see.  :P
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

LaCroix

Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 25, 2016, 03:15:46 PMAre conspiracies invariably revealed once they reach a certain size?  Or does some percentage of conspiracies always reveal themselves?

Material can mean as little as 2,000 votes, the difference in Florida in 2000.

especially in the modern era with social media, wikileaks-type organizations, etc.? yes, I'd say all conspiracies are revealed once they reach a certain size.

"material" is way more than 2,000, because the fact 2,000 happened to be enough to swing a state in one election doesn't mean, realistically, it's enough to swing a state in other elections.