Will the Left Survive the Millennials?

[The Minsky Moment]

Well this is my question, being (I suspect) a bit younger than you. Did institutions back then yield so easily?

You had university campuses being occupied by force (not this softy OWS stuff), professors and administrators being harassed, physically blocked from their offices, loudly heckled and denounced in classrooms.  Far more serious stuff than some wimpy complaints about "micro-aggressions" prompting the uni to release some bureaucratic memo saying sing kumbaya like happens now.

As silly and annoying as this millennial whinyness and infantalism may be, it's a long way off from reaching the sheer zanyness and occasional menace of the New Left at its height in the late 60s and early 70s.

[Razgovory]

It's a reasonable argument.  Seems to me whenever you read about someone pushing back against PC idiocy it's almost always someone from an older generation, which raises the possibility that as Millenials age the idiocy will become an unchallenged orthodoxy, questioned only by alt-right "fuck her in the pussy" frat boy retards.

It's a completely reasonable argument.

It's one I've been making for a long, long time. If you insist that the moderates are evil because they refuse to bow to the radical extremism, what you will be left with is, well, Trump.

The left wants to blame the rise of Trumpism on the right, but in reality they are, at least, equally at fault, if not at greater fault. The demonization of the moderates in their own party (how many Blue Dogs are left?), and lumping all "Republicans" into the same bucket, has had as much to do with the polarization of discourse as anything Fox has done.

And the reverse is true as well - the loopy left sees how effective the rhetoric of exclusion and intolerance is from the far right, and they have decided they should give it a shot as well, but targetted at different groups is all, often their own.

It actually makes me kind of stunned that the crazy right might actually win this little culture war we are having, only because the regressive left is more worried about whether those on their own side are pure enough for their lofty "ideals" to be tolerated.

Yes, the Democratic party has shifted too far to the left.  That's why Bernie Sander's is now up against Trump.

[The Minsky Moment]

Yes, the Democratic party has shifted too far to the left.  That's why Bernie Sander's is now up against Trump.

But his point is that the Democrats are now on the verge of defeat, in part because some of its potential supporters on the left are lukewarm and threatening to walk on the grounds of insufficient ideological purity.

[Razgovory]

There is a lot to that but it seems to be (maybe the older ones here can correct me) is that in previous generation, society didn't indulge these kinds of tantrums.

We never had the New Left?  Radical chic?  Students occupying universities?  Manifestos denouncing capitalist rhetoric?

How quickly we forget.

Seriously.  The great movement of the left today, a handful of college kids camping in New York city to "Occupy Wallstreet".  The Great movement of the Left in the 1960's, riots and strikes that nearly cause the collapse of the French Government.

[Razgovory]

Yes, the Democratic party has shifted too far to the left.  That's why Bernie Sander's is now up against Trump.

But his point is that the Democrats are now on the verge of defeat, in part because some of its potential supporters on the left are lukewarm and threatening to walk on the grounds of insufficient ideological purity.

Really?  He seems to be ranting on about how his beloved segregati- I mean, Blue Dogs are no longer a major part of the party. Something that has been true since the 1990's.

You'll have to ask him.  He won't talk to me.  He said I was too much of a radical leftist tribalist because in supporting Clinton over the moderate Sanders.

[Valmy]

Really?  He seems to be ranting on about how his beloved segregati- I mean, Blue Dogs are no longer a major part of the party. Something that has been true since the 1990's.

How idiotic is it to announce that Berkut is a racist segregationist? This is just the kind of puritanical garbage he was talking about.

[Duque de Bragança]

There is a lot to that but it seems to be (maybe the older ones here can correct me) is that in previous generation, society didn't indulge these kinds of tantrums.

We never had the New Left?  Radical chic?  Students occupying universities?  Manifestos denouncing capitalist rhetoric?

How quickly we forget.

Seriously.  The great movement of the left today, a handful of college kids camping in New York city to "Occupy Wallstreet".  The Great movement of the Left in the 1960's, riots and strikes that nearly cause the collapse of the French Government.

Nah, Moscow would never have allowed the Communist Trade Union to unite with mao/leftist/whatever students to topple De Gaulle. May '68 is more of a victory for individualism than anything else.

[Martinus]

Really?  He seems to be ranting on about how his beloved segregati- I mean, Blue Dogs are no longer a major part of the party. Something that has been true since the 1990's.

How idiotic is it to announce that Berkut is a racist segregationist? This is just the kind of puritanical garbage he was talking about.

Raz is insane. He is desperately trying to fit in by embracing some bullshit extremist positions. He is better ignored than debated.

[HVC]

... is desperately trying to fit in by embracing some bullshit extremist positions. He is better ignored than debated.

kettle meet pot

[Admiral Yi]

kettle meet pot

You said you would hard return. 

Disagree that Marty is trying to fit in.  Seems to me he's pursuing some sophomoric strategy of antagonizing people to achieve some sort of iconoclastic ideal.

[HVC]

kettle meet pot

You said you would hard return. 

And I was doing so good

And I don't think he's doing it to fit into languish. He's doing it to fit into what he feels is a western counter culture so that he feels less like a backwoods Eastern European. That and because he's and an attention seeking ass

[Razgovory]

Really?  He seems to be ranting on about how his beloved segregati- I mean, Blue Dogs are no longer a major part of the party. Something that has been true since the 1990's.

How idiotic is it to announce that Berkut is a racist segregationist? This is just the kind of puritanical garbage he was talking about.

Good thing I didn't say that, otherwise I'd be idiotic.  Berkut seems to have some odd idea about the conservative wing of the Democratic party that has migrated over to the Republicans since the 1940's. They are not noble fighters against the extreme left, they were segregationists.  I'm perfectly happy that the Strom Thurmond wing switched Republicans.  I think it comes with his obsessive interest in being "non-tribal".  Being a hard right member of a left-wing party doesn't make you noble or moderate or independent.  Likewise, blaming both democrats and republicans for Trump doesn't does not demonstrate your lack of tribe, only your lack of sense.

[mongers]

Damn, this thread topic is sub-par; come back Timmay all is forgiven.

[Delirium]

Good topic and spot on. I was a lefty in the early 2000's but moved on from there. It is partly about growing up and becoming more conservative with age, but also because the left has changed over that time (not to mention since 1968).

The old left, at its best, was about changing society to create a better world for everyone. We were out campaigning against Shell in the late 80's for their supporting apartheid in South Africa (we were 15 years old).

The new left starts social media campaigns about multi-culturalism and that our differences should lead to respect. It leads to relativism. It is about defining groups, not creating societies.

If I were in a position of power and wanted to create a political radicalism for kids and dissidents to involve themselves with I would create a political movement that indulges completely in identity because it is in essence harmless and ultimately irrelevant to the big picture: namely economic distribution of wealth, something the new left do not care about more than selecting which minority should be getting a government grant this week.

The one thing the old and new left have in common is that everything is the United States' fault. And the Jews.

[Ed Anger]

Damn, this thread topic is sub-par; come back Timmay all is forgiven.

No