Acts of Terrorism megathread

[Oexmelin]

Correct.  It means non-religious (or non-spiritual, if you are being pedantic)
"Secular Muslim" is an oxymoron.

Not really. In many uses of the term, especially when it relates to individuals, secularism doesn't preclude religious affiliation or sentiment (indeed, the secular clergy was not quite non-religious) - rather, it presumes the relegation of these sentiments beyond the more immediate preoccupations of social life.

[grumbler]

Correct.  It means non-religious (or non-spiritual, if you are being pedantic)
"Secular Muslim" is an oxymoron.

Not really. In many uses of the term, especially when it relates to individuals, secularism doesn't preclude religious affiliation or sentiment (indeed, the secular clergy was not quite non-religious) - rather, it presumes the relegation of these sentiments beyond the more immediate preoccupations of social life.

"Secular clergy" is a catholic religious/canonical term, not a common language term.  It doesn't apply to Muslims.

[CountDeMoney]

"Recovering Catholic"

[Oexmelin]

"Secular clergy" is a catholic religious/canonical term, not a common language term.  It doesn't apply to Muslims.

It was but an illustration that secular has a more capacious meaning than what you ascribed to it. The rest of my point, concerning the hierarchy of religious values in relationship to the (social) world, still stands. It is used in such way, for instance, in the sociology of religion. 

My impression is that "secular" in the US plays the same role as laïcité in France: their analytical value is difficult to disentangle from the specific political context which tends to narrow their meaning.

[PDH]

To be pedantic for my own self, anthropologists of religion use it in a way similar to the canonical meaning - devoid of institutional (but not necessarily spiritual) influences.

Secular muslim can be both an oxymoron and filled with meaning depending on the definitions of terms.

[Richard Hakluyt]

It is interesting which religion people choose to not believe in.

I don't believe in the Church of England's line; I am. of course, lapsed CofE and that determines many of my beliefs and thoughts. So "secular Muslim" does make sense i think.

[Admiral Yi]

"Cultural Muslim" seems to convey that meaning better than secular Muslim.

[MadImmortalMan]

I dunno. Islam plays a different role in society than most religions we're used to coexisting with. It is by it's own tenets a religion, a government, a philosophy and a culture.

[mongers]

I dunno. Islam plays a different role in society than most religions we're used to coexisting with. It is by it's own tenets a religion, a government, a philosophy and a culture.

See Myanmar.

[grumbler]

To be pedantic for my own self, anthropologists of religion use it in a way similar to the canonical meaning - devoid of institutional (but not necessarily spiritual) influences.

Secular muslim can be both an oxymoron and filled with meaning depending on the definitions of terms.

Yes, but we are talking ordinary English here, not anthropological or religion-specific definitions.  A Muslim is one who has "submitted to Allah."  That's kinda the point.  "Non-practicing Muslims" isn't a term a Muslim would recognize as valid, since the only definition of Muslim is that he or she has submitted to Allah.  The Five Pillars are just how a Muslim observes the faith; they can be suspended for various reasons without impacting their status as Muslims, so long as they still acknowledge submission to Allah.  A "secular" submission to Allah seems a contradiction in terms.

[CountDeMoney]

I dunno. Islam plays a different role in society than most religions we're used to coexisting with. It is by it's own tenets a religion, a government, a philosophy and a culture.

See Myanmar.

See Myballs.  You know what he's trying to say.  Read your Koran, PBUH PBR PBJ.

[Valmy]

See Myanmar.

Huh?

Anyway Buddhism is pretty different from our standard experience as well. That particular flavor of Buddhism anyway.

[PDH]

Yes, but we are talking ordinary English here, not anthropological or religion-specific definitions.  A Muslim is one who has "submitted to Allah."  That's kinda the point.  "Non-practicing Muslims" isn't a term a Muslim would recognize as valid, since the only definition of Muslim is that he or she has submitted to Allah.  The Five Pillars are just how a Muslim observes the faith; they can be suspended for various reasons without impacting their status as Muslims, so long as they still acknowledge submission to Allah.  A "secular" submission to Allah seems a contradiction in terms.

I think we may be at opposite sides of the thing.  My point was that "a" definition that I find useful has a religious person without the institutions that have grown up from that religion.  The Islamic world has a wide variety of how the tennents are followed, and a practicing Muslim in the West could be religious with a nuanced view that rejects Wahhabism or other centuries of added on human institutions (especially since central to the faith is the notion that there was one last prophet and no more).  There is submission to Allah, and there is acceptance of later additions - a useful division perhaps...

However, I do agree that in the present world, the cultural and religious notions are not easily separable and thus for many a non-institutional Muslim would be a non-Muslim (both from within and from without).  It might just be where I work, but I find some of these examples do survive though, and so there may just be a counter-reformation to the last century and a half of reformation and hard lines.

[The Brain]

I think "ethnic Hindu" is the correct term.

[viper37]

secular does not mean atheist.

Correct.  It means non-religious (or non-spiritual, if you are being pedantic).

"Secular Muslim" is an oxymoron.

sec·u·lar·ism
ˈsekyələˌrizəm/
noun
noun: secularism

    the principle of separation of the state from religious institutions.